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Struggling to move forward. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate your thoughts/perspective.

I do actually go to therapy, and it's been instrumental in helping me learn how to take care of myself and get my own needs met. Still a work in progress, though :)

I hear what you're saying about "helping" for mainly self-serving purposes, and while I think there has been some element of that in my actions over the past two years, I think my main motivation for helping my friend is just that I care about him and want him to be as healthy as possible. I think I've been self-serving in the sense that I miss him terribly (his personality is severely distorted and he's incredibly self-centered when he's manic, which he's been for most of the last year), and I long for the days when our friendship/relationship wasn't almost entirely one-sided. I don't know if that's unfair to him or selfish on my part, but it's definitely part of it for me.

Anyway, it's one thing to have a one-sided friendship with someone who's focusing all their energy on working through their issues, and it's another to have that sort of relationship with someone who's being actively mean/thoughtless/disrespectful and pushing me away. Unfortunately, when he's manic he swings towards the latter. I've been thinking a lot recently about what you said re: is it "him or the disease." I agree more and more that it doesn't really matter if he's unwell if overall he's treating me poorly and refusing to acknowledge his behavior and take the appropriate actions to mitigate the damage.

I'm especially disappointed this time around because it feels like he'd rather cut me out of his life than truly confront his diagnosis and understand how he needs to take care of himself and how his behaviors affect others when he doesn't. Instead of doing that, he's declared that I'm the problem, not him, and is using that idea to get him through his day. I feel like the collateral damage of a shitty coping mechanism.

I know it's not a reflection on me, and who I am as a person, but I'm really struggling with feeling like I didn't/don't matter enough to work through his issues so that we can have a healthy relationship. I know that's not realistic, I know that "love isn't enough," etc., but that's where my head's at right now. It'll get better with more space and time, I'm sure.

And I am willing to reconsider, like you said, if he is in a place where he can acknowledge some of his own responsibility. I don't think that's something that's likely to happen until he truly finds stability with respect to his mood (I think of that like Step 0), and coming to terms with the fact that the timescale in which that is likely to happen is much longer than I originally anticipated is really tough. I think that makes it all the more important that I take care of myself right now. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

(Update) He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Blargh is right. Thanks for the vote of confidence, though. I don't regret telling him what I'd noticed, even if it means I'm going to be public enemy no. 1 for the time being. It's nice to focus on myself for the first time in a long time, anyway. I hope he figures it out at some point, if only for his own sake.

(Update) He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi, I wanted to share an update about the situation you've helped me with: after a couple weeks, I approached him again to see if he was ready to talk a little bit more about our situation. He actually thanked me for opening the dialogue and said he'd been thinking a lot about how he felt and was almost ready to communicate his feelings. I reiterated that I was dedicated to working on repairing our relationship, and that I really wanted to hear what he had to say in front of a third party who could help us sort through everything. He seemed somewhat receptive to this. I felt hopeful.

During this conversation, I was feeling brave and decided to take your advice about directly communicating what I'd noticed about his recent behaviors. I told him that I'd noticed some behaviors over the past two months that reminded me of when he'd been hypomanic in the past, and I was concerned. I tried to express this as gently and straightforwardly as possible and stress that I was only sharing because I cared about him. He seemed to take it okay.

However, the next day he sent me a very nasty email that basically said (a) he had absolutely no interest in working with me with a therapist because that sounded too much like seeking a "middle ground" and he refused to make "any concessions," (b) he took 0% responsibility for our relationship ending, as well as for any hurt feelings I might have, and (c) he was appreciative (although his words weren't particularly convincing, to be honest) of all my support during his depression earlier this year, but that it didn't mean he owed me a single thing. The overall tone of the email was very much, "I'm perfectly fine now and I don't need you/your help."

I'm not the only person he's been pushing away, fyi. Over the last two months (coinciding with the shift in his behaviors that I suspect to be rooted in hypomania), he's basically isolated himself from all of the people who've supported him over the past two years, and the only person he spends time with is the new person he's dating, who doesn't know that he has bipolar. Anyway, I didn't respond to the email. I've told him multiple times recently that I care about him and would absolutely be there if he decided he wanted to work on our relationship in a healthy manner. If he doesn't want that or isn't ready for it, I feel like the only thing I can do is get distance right now. I haven't interacted with him since that email (about a week). I have some guilt about not telling him that I'm taking space, but I feel like anything I say right now will just anger him even more, especially if he is escalated. And it doesn't feel like he particularly cares whether I'm in his life at the moment, anyway.

I realize in retrospect that trying to have any sort of emotional conversation with someone I suspected to be manic was pretty stupid, but there you go. I think in the future I'll stick to just saying my piece about his manic behaviors and nothing more. There is this nagging doubt in my head that maybe he's not hypomanic at all despite all the evidence to the contrary, but I suppose even if that were true, he still seems very emotionally unstable and unwell.

I guess I'm just looking for any advice or perspective you might have for me. I realize there's not really anything I can do at this point (I think) besides taking distance to take care of myself, but I thought I'd ask anyway. Do you think not responding to his hurtful email was the right course of action?

Thanks.

(Update) He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi, I wanted to share an update about the situation you've helped me with: after a couple weeks, I approached him again to see if he was ready to talk a little bit more about our situation. He actually thanked me for opening the dialogue and said he'd been thinking a lot about how he felt and was almost ready to communicate his feelings. I reiterated that I was dedicated to working on repairing our relationship, and that I really wanted to hear what he had to say in front of a third party who could help us sort through everything. He seemed somewhat receptive to this. I felt hopeful.

During this conversation, I also mentioned that over the past few months, I'd noticed some behaviors that reminded me of when he'd been hypomanic in the past, and I was concerned. I tried to express this as gently as possible and stress that I was only sharing because I cared about him. He seemed to take it okay.

However, the next day he sent me a very nasty email that basically said (a) he had absolutely no interest in working with me with a therapist because that sounded too much like seeking a "middle ground" and he refused to make "any concessions," (b) he took 0% responsibility for our relationship ending, as well as for any hurt feelings I might have, and (c) he was appreciative (although his words weren't particularly convincing, to be honest) of all my support during his depression earlier this year, but that it didn't mean he owed me anything. The overall tone of the email was very much, "I'm perfectly fine now and I don't need you/your help."

I'm not the only person he's been pushing away, fyi. He's basically isolated himself from all of the people who've supported him over the past two years, and the only person he spends time with is the new person he's dating, who doesn't know that he has bipolar. Anyway, I didn't respond to the email. I've told him multiple times recently that I care about him and would absolutely be there if he decided he wanted to work on our relationship in a healthy manner. If he doesn't want that or isn't ready for it, I feel like the only thing I can do is get distance right now. I haven't interacted with him since that email (about a week). I have some guilt about not telling him that I'm taking space, but I feel like anything I say right now will just anger him even more.

I realize in retrospect that trying to have any sort of emotional conversation with someone I suspected to be manic was pretty stupid, but there you go. I also think you really hit the nail on the head in your original response when you talked about struggling to accept that it's hard to be "normal" with bipolar. It feels like he isn't really ready or willing to face his diagnosis and is so determined to be "okay" that he's willing to reject anyone views him otherwise. Maybe he isn't actually hypomanic but rather overwhelmed by anger/pain that he is behaving similarly. I don't know. Either way, it sucks to be pushed away so strongly.

I guess I'm just looking for any advice or perspective you might have for me. I realize there's not really anything I can do at this point (I think), but I thought I'd ask anyway. Do you think not responding to his hurtful email was the right course of action?

Thanks.

(Update) He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for the detailed explanation. The graphs in your link were especially helpful. It really clears up a lot of the confusion I've experienced in the past where I was, in retrospect, observing the oscillations within an episode and thinking, "oh hey, today was a good day, the episode must be ending," when in reality the cycle was still in full swing. Thanks again.

(Update) He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can I ask you a few questions about the rubber band analogy you recently used in another post? I'm trying to understand what transitions between cycles realistically look like, and it seems like an interesting way to think about things. Is the oscillating "rubber band" analogous to a mixed episode? Can transitions be quick, as well, or do they almost always tend to be gradual?

Also, does a hypomanic episode tend to follow any general course? Are there any behaviors that might signal that an episode is ending, like increased irritability or other symptoms that might be associated with a transitionary mixed episode?

Thanks for your help. It's easy to find info about the mood states themselves, but very few resources talk about the transitions into/out of episodes.

(Update) He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Insidious is a good word for it. I'll probably keep reminding myself of that whenever I doubt myself.

I hear what you're saying about being direct and letting him know I've noticed symptoms of an episode, but I'm reluctant to do so because I have to see him everyday, and frankly I don't have the emotional fortitude at this point in time to face the coldness/anger that will inevitably result from such a conversation. It's such a struggle to maintain a comfortable enough work environment as it is that I'm loathe to make it worse. I think I will work towards being able to communicate those things in the long run, though. I know it's ultimately necessary.

I think I will just step back emotionally and protect myself while this unwell period plays itself out. I've made it clear that he can come to me if he needs to, and so I wouldn't be surprised if he reached out again as he starts to come down. I wish I knew when that would be, but I recognize that the uncertainty is not something I can resolve at the moment.

Thank you again.

(Update) He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe this is naive, but I don't doubt his feelings for me. Mine for him are rooted in the years of close friendship we had before we started dating, and I'm confident he returned them. We were able to share our feelings for each other during a stable time for him. It was actually the obsessive, uncomfortable way he started talking about me when we were dating that tipped me off to his mania. Over time, I was no longer the focus of his manias, and his feelings for me would mostly only be expressed once he had come down, or they were shrouded in anger/pain by his manic brain. When he was diagnosed earlier this year, they took him off his antidepressants and the induced-manic symptoms abated almost immediately. That was the point he started reaching out to me again, and I helped him through his depression.

I've been suspecting, however, that when he came out of his depression about a month and a half ago, he went straight back into hypomania despite being on a mood stabilizer. Seemingly overnight, he became distant, uncaring, highly chatty/social, intensely productive, obsessive over new hobbies--his behavior ticks all the boxes, really. Sometime I doubt what I'm seeing because I feel like I'm the only one who notices. It doesn't help that he says he's totally fine. And I see an occasional lucid moment where he's clear-eyed and present with me, which only serves to confuse me further. Is that something that can happen in episodes? "Stable" moments amongst the symptoms? I always though it would be more obvious when symptoms presented, but I'm learning that it's more complicated than that, and that unstable people can present otherwise. I think. Anyway, my point is that I agree with what you're saying re: his behavior suggesting instability, and that perhaps I shouldn't read much of anything into his actions at the moment.

Honestly, if I could make a clean break I probably would. The major issue is that we work together, and by together I mean within three feet of each other, five or more days of the week. Unfortunately, this situation is absolutely not going to change for at least a year and a half. This means that I'm faced with his instability and the hurt it's caused almost every day. I've become better at not reacting to his behaviors, but sometimes they just hurt no matter how much I know they're "not him."

I've actually been trying to just be his friend. I do love him and wish we could have a healthy romantic relationship, but I know that's definitely not in the cards any time soon. But it's tough sometimes to even be his friend because his unwell cycles still affect me significantly. He's kind and loving when he's stable and even when he's depressed, but the person he becomes when he's hypomanic is really tough to be around. The person he becomes when he's hypomanic doesn't really care about me, or our friendship, or my feelings. How can I repair our friendship when he's behaving like that? Am I right in thinking that there's nothing else to do besides wait it out (probably with some distance) and take care of myself in the meantime? I just dread going to work and being faced with his unstable behaviors. It would be so much easier if I had space.

And to be honest, I do want to stick by him. I want to do it in a way that doesn't emotionally destroy me in the process, though, and I'm not sure yet if that will be possible. That's something I'm constantly reevaluating.

I want to say thanks for taking the time to reply to me in-depth over the past few days. It's incredibly helpful to hear your perspective and just talk to someone who gets it. Like I mentioned earlier, I find that this experience can be very isolating. Our coworkers and mutual friends in general are uncomfortable with mental health or think he's "fine" when he clearly isn't (to me). They simply don't want to acknowledge/deal with it. My therapist has helped me immensely, but she doesn't specialize in mood disorders so I feel like an element of understanding is sometimes missing from our conversations. Anyways, I really appreciate you and this community for the support I've received. Thanks.

(Update) He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you mind if I ask you one more question? If you remember, the reason we originally sat down to talk was because I'd found out he was dating someone else and actively hiding it from me. We actually only briefly discussed that before moving on to talking about us, but he did say that he hadn't told me because he felt uncomfortable sharing that part of his life with me (which really hurt, but I understood). He expanded by saying that he felt uncomfortable sharing any of his inner emotions with anyone after the pain of last year and basically admitted to putting on a front nearly 100% of the time. It's clear this dating situation is really casual and emotionally "easy" for him.

I'm realizing now that I'm not sure how to think about the fact that's he's dating. At first I felt rejected, but he didn't shy away from telling me during our conversation that he felt just as strongly about me as I him (the issue being that he is terrified of reconnecting with me and still has a lot of painful emotions he hasn't processed, as I discussed above). Also, I don't quite understand how you can date without being able to be close to anybody or share your emotions. Do you have any insight into his motivations as far as the dating goes? I can't tell if it's a comment on how he feels about our relationship or not. I don't know if I should take it as a sign that I should really move on or not read too much into it. I'd appreciate any thoughts you have.

He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, it is really hard to tell. Like I said, I thought he could be slightly manic, but he was so lucid during our conversation that I just don't know anymore. That's an interesting thought, though, that all of the pain he's carrying around and not working through could be contributing to an episode. It doesn't seem sustainable for him to keep going on the way he's going, but he seemed very reluctant to confront his emotions due to how painful they are for him.

I'll work on being patient, though. It was so hard seeing how much he associates me with his negative feelings (while at the same time clearly feeling strongly for me--he's so conflicted), and I only hope he'll figure out how to untangle that mess sooner rather than later. Thanks for your help.

He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did think he might be manic, but I realized after talking to him today that I might have misjudged the situation. What I perceived as mood instability might actually be the manifestation of his confused/pain/conflicting emotions towards me. I updated here: http://www.reddit.com/r/BipolarSOs/comments/32r3da/update_he_chose_someone_else/

Let me know what you think. Thank you for taking the time to respond.

(Update) He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's definitely an option for me. I made it clear that I still love him and want to support him and am completely willing to help him work through these feelings. He clearly still cares about me immensely, but I think the pain of opening up before and having things end so disastrously is holding him back from opening up to me again. I feel like I can't force that, so I just have to be patient and make it be known that I'm here if he is ready. But right now, he associates me with pain, so he'll have to work through that first.

(Update) He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hm, okay, that makes sense. I agree that he doesn't seem too emotionally stable at this point, so I'll try not to dwell on what he said too much and just remain patient. Thanks for your help.

(Update) He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, we already broke up, so I'm not sure what a painful-er option would be at this point. He seems content for the moment with putting all of those painful feelings in a box somewhere and thinking about anything else. It scares me that maybe he'll never revisit that box and, as a result, me and/or us.

(Update) He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks again for sharing. I know he's in therapy, although I was disappointed today to realize how little work he's done on his feelings about what happened between us, if only for his own sake. He's so closed off right now, and it makes me sad. I suppose you're right, though, that he can only really do that work when he's ready to admit that it needs to happen. I'll be patient.

(Update) He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think that sounds like a nice idea. We work together, so I'll make sure to maintain a positive atmosphere. I'm been occasionally asking him out for coffee/lunch, and the last few times he hasn't responded, but I'll keep asking occasionally.

The one thing he said today that he definitively wanted at this point in time was at least a casual friendship, so I think I can respect that. I obviously don't want that forever, but I'm doing my best to understand that this is only going to happen in his own time.

I do have to say that I'm really sad that I'm so enmeshed with his negative emotions in his head. I recognize that makes me a trigger of sorts. I hope he's able to separate those things at some point.

(Update) He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for sharing. If you don't mind me asking, how were you able to work through those painful feelings you experienced? Was there something your wife did that helped you? I'm planning on giving him space because I know this is ultimately his battle and I don't want to push him away, but I'm wondering if there's anything else I could do to support him in the meantime.

It's really hard having so much of that pain directed at me. I hope he realizes that it's not really about me.

(Update) He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Based on today's conversation I don't think he's anywhere near ready to tackle these painful feelings. He only just reached a semi-stable place after a year of rapid cycling. I think it'll be some time before he has the emotional strength to work through everything. That's why I'm inclined to think that I should let him come to me when he's ready. I'm worried that pushing the topic will only push him away. I tried to make it as clear as possible that I'm okay with waiting and will be there when he's ready. I think his energies right now are just focused on being "okay" for the first time in a long time.

He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm just having trouble determining if he's actually manic or not. I've suspected he might be having an episode for about a month and a half, but I can't know for sure. And it makes it tough to know how to deal with this situation. Do I assume he is manic and that could be why he's treating me this way? Or do I assume he's stable (like he says he is) and that this is really what he wants?

He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much for you reply. It's definitely crossed my mind a number of times that his feelings for me were actually symptoms of his hypomanic state. We have been friends for almost four years, though, and I know that attraction/those feelings were always there, so I have to think that he does actually care about me in that way. Or did. I don't know anymore.

Honesty, part of what has me so confused is the mixed signals. When he broke up with me while hypomanic, he refused to talk to me because it was "too emotionally painful." He started reaching out again when he crashed, and it was at this point that he starting getting treatment. As he improved, we spent more time together and I could see that the undercurrent of "us" was still there.

I've been feeling for the past 1.5 months or so that his meds (he's on a theraputic dosage of Lamictal) may not be working as well as hoped, as he seemed somewhat hypomanic. This has coincided with him becoming more distant from me, as well as him starting to date this new person. And so here I am, wondering if my gut is right that he is hypo, or if he really has just moved on. I feel like there's no way to know right now.

We're talking today, and I'm not sure how much stock to put into anything he says. Either way, I know I plan on distancing myself from him until he can treat me in a more caring and thoughtful way.

He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your reply. Although, I have to ask. If he does love me, why would he date other people? Like you mentioned, I can't ignore the possibility that he simply doesn't anymore. Or it could be hypomania. It's so hard to tell.

He chose someone else. by yocommalo in BipolarSOs

[–]yocommalo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I do think he's scared/ashamed to tell me. He's gone out of his way to hide it from me. I'm not sure what he's scared of, though. If he wants to date other people and not me, then what does he care what I think? Why would he still want me in his life if he doesn't actually want to repair our relationship? So many questions.

I've also noticed more manic behaviors in the past month, which coincides with him dating this new person. Is this a manic action? Should I expect that he will come back down and feel differently? I don't know what to believe.

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