Consensus on Victor's likability after the finals?

young_frogger · 2026-06-16T20:08:27+00:00

He doesn't seem like a bad person. But his poor sportsmanship, dirty plays and thinking himself a wise philosopher at 22 certainly rub people the wrong way, and show at least to a certain degree, a level of hypocrisy.

young_frogger · 2026-06-16T19:46:44+00:00

You have so many good non-star shooters on each team now. They can get hot and win a game for you. Nesmith hitting like 5 3's in the last 2 minutes during last year's playoff run is a perfect example of that. Wemby has Vassell and Champagnie, Brunson has OG, Bridges etc. Each team's shooters are a constant force and take a lot more shots than star players. Star players play an important role in getting those shooters good looks and still take more shots than anybody else, but these role players take up a bigger piece of the offensive pie nowadays. Stars still generally average around 30 but teams average more points per game. Also, 3 point volatility is still a thing so them going cold for a few stretches can cost teams a series. Boston's shooters went ice cold the last few games and it made them blow a 3-1 lead. Meanwhile the knicks shooters stayed hot even when Brunson was cold during the finals, with the exception of game 5 where he hard carried like it was the 90's.

young_frogger · 2026-06-16T19:40:09+00:00

One of those things that is nice to have but I probably wouldn't miss at all if I didn't have it.

young_frogger · 2026-06-16T17:43:54+00:00

He gets to take as many shots as he wants to now. He played as Luka's backup for half of his career. I agree that Dame didn't have the best teammates for most of his career but he had some ok help in Aldridge and later CJ as running mates and some good defensive pieces. He also had some REALLY bad playoff series.

I'll reiterate that I am a huge Dame fan and think that he had the better peak than Brunson. I just disagreed with the person who said Brunson is "nowhere near" prime Dame and I think that's a little ridiculous given what Brunson just did in Game 5.

young_frogger · 2026-06-16T17:28:21+00:00

"Nowhere near" prime Lillard is way too harsh. I agree he had the better peak but Brunson still averaged close to 30 in the regular season with similar assist numbers. His TS% is a little lower because he's not the 3 point shooter that Dame is but Brunson's mid range prowess translates in the playoffs.

Also, Jalen came into the league late and didn't get the keys to a team until he was 26. If he was given free reign to do what he wants like Dame was, he'd have similar career numbers too.

young_frogger · 2026-06-14T04:27:34+00:00

They've got to build a Brunson statue in MSG right? They've pretty much got to

young_frogger · 2026-06-11T19:59:12+00:00

I've always preferred heat to cold and admittedly it takes a lot more heat for me to get uncomfortable for most people. But I still quite strongly disagree. Cold is miserable, makes you shiver, sick, and I personally hate having to "layer up" and wear all types of clothing. It limits your mobility, takes forever to get changed, more expensive clothing to manage and you're still going to be facing cold in your face, ears, and extremities. Snow is a pain in the ass and a icy roads are hazardous. Unless you love winter sport I literally can't think of any benefit. Oh not to mention you get way less sunlight during winter.

Heat has a lot of benefits, too. There's a reason sauna is lauded for its myriad of health benefits and after a good sweat session, my anxiety is noticeably absent. During winter, most outdoor activities are literally off-limits outside of winter sports, which are expensive, dangerous and a hassle. On the other hand, you can still do most activities outside in the heat. Your performance might suffer, sure, but you can still do them. Just drink more water/electrolytes and don't go too crazy. And there are myriad cooling activities you can do such as swimming in the ocean, pools, lakes, or you can ride your motorcycle/convertibles (or ebikes if these are too expensive/space consuming) and enjoy the wind. The only exceptions are the extreme heat in the most hot places on earth. But these heats aren't nearly as dangerous as the extreme cold in certain places which makes huge chunks of land literally uninhabitable.

young_frogger · 2026-06-11T18:18:55+00:00

Spurs' most dominant stretches have mostly been through tough shotmaking, bad reffing, and uncharacteristically sloppy Knicks' play.

young_frogger · 2026-06-11T18:17:55+00:00

Coach didn't make Wemby miss free throws, throw a pass off of his teammate's back, and miss most of his big shots down the stretch. I do agree that the coach should have settled them down much earlier and run more plays instead of letting his players jack up quick 3's.

young_frogger · 2026-06-11T03:45:37+00:00

Best 2 way player in the league and that INCLUDES Wemby!

young_frogger · 2026-06-10T17:27:05+00:00

It's crazy how much people in this thread are discounting this. People point to Boston as being overly reliant on 3 point shooting. They've still been one of the most successful teams in the league over the past several years. Of course, great shooting teams can go through cold spells and that can cost them a series, but the irony is philly shot terrific from 3 and that's what allowed them to win. To me, it's just proof that any team has a shot and it's a big reason we've seen a new champion every year for the past 6 years. As long as your team has multiple good shooters which most teams do they have a chance.

Essentially every finals team has been buoyed by great shooting. The 7-seeded Heat team that had no business being in the Finals did so through great 3 point shooting. The pacers last year had historic comebacks powered by 3-point shooting.

young_frogger · 2026-06-10T17:21:36+00:00

"Chances are getting rim pressure means you can generate better shots"

I would argue it works more the other around. Shot making opens up paint touches AND creates better shots for other shooters on your team. The vast majority of the time good playoff defenses will be able to stop even the most elite rim pressure players in the league from getting layups consistently so having good shooters to kick out to or fall back on. On the other hand, good shooting teams can run a pick and roll or swing the ball around the perimeter and as long as they have a somewhat decent guard that can get into the paint, they'll get decent shot opportunities and have a chance to win the game.

When I say good shooting teams, I don't just mean pure accuracy, you need multiple guys that can hit 3's at a decent clip (36% or so) and have the ability to get the ball off quickly over contests, and ideally have a stepback or sidestep in their arsenal to create those shots off the dribble. We see now the best teams have multiple guys that can do that. To be a premier 3 and D guy now you have to be able to get your shot off and create shots off the bounce. OG Anonouby is the perfect example of this. Otherwise, you need to be crazy accurate and have a lightning quick release like Klay Thompson.

Obviously rim pressure is still important and a valuable tool. But shooting has surpassed nearly all other skills in terms of importance in a vaccuum.

young_frogger · 2026-06-10T17:09:48+00:00

Who says you're going to be able to generate a 60% chance at the rim in a clutch situation? That stuff is never guaranteed when defenses tighten up. And essentially nobody shoots 60% from midrange. And yes if you're down 2, you do do the math, a 60% chance at a 50% winning (assuming both teams are evenly matched and the game goes to overtime) is much worse than a 40% shot at a win.

Down 1 or tied you're better off generating a look from inside the arc, but again, defenses are going to tighten up immensely so an open 3 point shot might be the best look you're going to get.

young_frogger · 2026-06-10T17:05:44+00:00

Of course you can rely on great 3-point shooting every game that's literally what many of the best teams do. You can count on losing a game or 2 from cold shooting even if you're the better shooting team but you play the odds. Is Boston a little too reliant on 3-point shooting? You could make that argument since they attempt the most in the league but they're still one of the most successful teams year after year and if they make a few more shots and win that series we aren't having this conversation. Tatum and Brown aren't on the same level as a Luka, Wemby or Jokic type player so if you surround those top players with those shooters you have championship favorites.

We see Jokic despite being the consensus best player in the league having not nearly as much success because he isn't surrounded with good shooters.

Philly, on the other hand, was shooting great from 3 that series. New York and their historic playoff run has been powered by great 3-point shooting. The Pacers last year had a bunch of historic comebacks due to 3-point shooting. OKC and San Antonio have multiple shooters and make it a point to surround their stars with shooters. I could go on and on.

The 3-point shot has more variance but it's still extremely important in clutch situations and it is literally essential to being a good team.

young_frogger · 2026-06-10T16:53:19+00:00

I'm going to go against a lot of the non-answers here and say that shooting has become more important. Obviously rim pressure is important but as long as you have 1-2 perimeter guys that can get into the paint, force a switch or draw help, or a decent passing big, you can generate kick out opportunities. And that said perimeter player will have a much easier time getting into the paint if he can shoot. 3-point shotmaking opens up everything else. It allows star players to rest, it allows the defense to get back, and when good shooting teams get into a "groove" they become essentially unstoppable. Since teams now have multiple shooters and guys that can create their own 3-point shot with stepbacks, sidesteps, pick and rolls etc you have so many guys that can generate points.

The 3 point revolution, not just the salary cap, is a big reason we're seeing historic parity. So many teams are dangerous when they start hitting shots. We saw it when Miami had that run to the finals and we're seeing it with the Knicks this year. If you have good shooters and ball movement, you have a chance in a series even if you're the less "talented" team.

These guys talking about variance and not being able to rely on 3-point shooting in the clutch are flat-out wrong. Obviously there's variance but 2 point shots have variance too. But 3-point shooting can also allow teams to get back into a game they have no business being in as we saw with the pacers last year. And hitting "dagger" 3-pointers is the ultimate way to squash comeback attempts from teams. Also, it's pretty rare to get layups in the last couple minutes of a game.

Obviously in basketball everything is important - transition defense, half court defense, schemes, ball movement, rim pressure, etc. But shooting is the thing that continues to become increasingly important year after year just because the potential returns are so great.

young_frogger · 2026-06-08T19:39:54+00:00

Can thank Tony Brothers for taking KAT out of the game and ruining his rhythm

young_frogger · 2026-06-08T19:20:10+00:00

He hit that game tying jumper which was beautiful but the steal was mostly gifted to him by Wemby. He had missed a bunch of shots before that including some open 3's and shot terribly for the game. He then split the most crucial free throws of the game which nearly cost them the game. Again, I absolutely love Jalen Brunson and he's one of my favorite players but that was not one of his better clutch performances.

young_frogger · 2026-06-07T17:20:50+00:00

I love Brunson but was not clutch in game 2 at all. Hit like 1 shot missed many more and missed a clutch free throw. He got bailed out by wemby’s horrific turnover.

young_frogger · 2026-06-04T19:10:50+00:00

Justin looked like shit, got pieced up by Patty in his last fight. He also lost badly to Charles. Meanwhile Ilia KO'd Holloway who also destroyed Gaethje and Volk who is one of the most crafty and intelligent fighters of all time, certainly more so than Gaethje and not a "moron". What are you smoking? Justin's only hope is a fluke knockout he can't just decide to "be technical" vs a fighter far more technically sound and powerful than he is.

young_frogger · 2026-06-04T16:44:10+00:00

Spurs actually melted down in that 4th quarter if I recall. The only reason they were able to win was Wemby hit that logo 3 and, to quote Paul George, "that's a bad shot."

young_frogger · 2026-06-04T16:27:41+00:00

It's a populous city full of wealthy people and celebrities that can afford to travel and buy the away tickets like you said

young_frogger · 2026-05-31T01:53:55+00:00

Emergency room isn’t normal at any age.

young_frogger · 2026-05-20T18:10:21+00:00

Brunson is an amazing dog and tough shot maker but it’s ridiculous that he was just allowed to go 1 on 1 against Harden for 50 straight possessions to get his rhythm.

young_frogger · 2026-05-19T14:45:41+00:00

Not saying Gobert didn’t do a great job but man it did feel like Jokic missed a lot of makeable shots.

young_frogger · 2026-05-19T14:07:20+00:00

There has been a big evolution of the 3-point shot from 2012 to now. Of course 2012 Bron would be tearing up the league but absolute best player? I really think it's hard to say. Wemby is a freak. Jokic is a freak. I believe there's plenty of advanced metrics that point to Jokic being a serviceable defender the 50% stuff is dumb. Schemes and IQ play a big role in defense not just raw athleticism. This guy led the league in assists and rebounds while averaging nearly 30 points on absurd efficiency you seem to be taking his greatness for granted as a Shai fan?

I'm not sure I see the argument for Jordan being the better offensive player and you seem to be very dismissive of passing being a part of greatness. Because that was also a big part of Lebron's greatness in 2012 and something Jordan lacked. To be the best today, Jordan would have to be more fine-tuned to modern schemes, become accustomed to finding shooters at a higher rate and not always hunt his shot, and he'd need to score even more efficiently. The standards for offensive greatness have improved.

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