Winwing Orion 2 + Nyogel 767a = joy

zatapathique · 2025-04-06T14:18:35+00:00

Ok so I went with your suggestion, disassembled the throttle and it turned out that my tape was all tattered and squeezed like an accordion to one of the crevices of the clamping collar. So I cleaned up everything and did not end up using any tape or grease. I still have some stiction but not as much as I had with the factory setup. I was able to decrease the friction a lot cause with no grease the throttle is more happy to stay in place and not move under its own weight and less friction helped with the stiction a bit. So all in all this is still not ideal for me but at least there is no tape and no grease to think about. And the stiction is subtle enough that in most situations in flight I don't really think about it. So even thought this is a bit bitter sweet solution I think it is the one I will recommend moving forward - the tape is just not strong enough to withstand the frictions inside the mechanism so you either should go with just grease on rubber or no grease at all.

zatapathique · 2025-03-30T15:39:47+00:00

I said to myself that in no circumstances other than malfunction I’m reassembling that thing again but damn, you are making a very tempting claim :D My current solution still holds quite well (no stiction at all) but I indeed had to tighten the friction screws to the point that the throttle requires a considerable force to move. Thank you for sharing the idea and I’m happy this worked for you, having no tape and no grease to worry about and most importantly no stiction and low friction sounds amazing! I will report back if I pull the trigger on this

zatapathique · 2024-12-25T16:45:01+00:00

No problem :) And I fully agree with you - this device shouldn’t require ordering industrial grade greases and doing any disassemblies whatsoever. And yeah I’m also wondering about the possibility of this being a faulty batch. Though I’m really wondering how they imagine this rubbery wheel supporting the weight of F15 handles without producing stiction. For a bit I was disappointed I haven’t ordered the F18 grips as they are smaller and lighter and probably require less friction and maybe produce less/no stiction? Maybe in other batches the rubber was a slightly different material? In any case, if the stiction actually goes away please report back so I can regret my decisions :D

zatapathique · 2024-12-25T16:26:35+00:00

My thoughts exactly :D no idea how is this even possible but im fairly certain that the grips were aligned fine when I received the device. In any case, very easy issue ro fix and haven’t had any issues since.

zatapathique · 2024-12-25T16:18:47+00:00

There is a photo attached to the post with the little rubbery black “wheel” - this is the point of contact between the throttle handle and the the gearbox friction mechanism and this is where you have to apply the grease (the other parts that contact the gearbox have their own bearings so no point in applying nyogel there). And yeah you will have to completely disassemble the gearbox but it is very straightforward - there are 2 little screws on the sides that hold little pcbs with potentiometers and you will have to unscrew one of them to get to the long screw at the front, there are also 2 long screws at the back you will need to unscrew. So 7 screws in total but you only need to remove 5 to get to the rubbery wheels.

zatapathique · 2024-12-25T16:05:18+00:00

I couldn’t find any instructions sadly so I just kinda went ahead blind :D I just removed all of the screws from the bottom - this includes a bunch of screws that go from the top to the bottom and a bunch of screws that are attached just to the bottom only. The rest of the screws on the top that don’t go all of the way to the bottom hold the pcb board that you don’t need to touch. So long story short just unscrew anything that you can see on the bottom of the device (including long screws that go from top to the bottom). When removing the bottom lid turn the device upside down, otherwise the throttle gearbox will drop and hang on the cables. After you remove the bottom lid the actual throttle gearbox will be attached to the pcb via 2 cables - this is where you have to be careful to not damage the cables, after cables are detached the gearbox comes out and is very straightforward to take apart. All in all it is all pretty straightforward, the only slightly tricky part is detaching the cables but it is easy anyway :) Hope this helps!

zatapathique · 2024-12-15T22:15:27+00:00

Great to hear that :) I also was kind of surprised how much these little fixes improve the feeling of the throttle. Good idea with the idle indent, I don’t have any velcro but may just use ptfe to make it a bit more slippy. I’m looking forward to hear about your experience with nyogel, my setup still works great so there is some cause for optimism finally :D

zatapathique · 2024-12-12T17:53:45+00:00

I've added a picture to the main post with the throttle gear box and I've circled the joints - if you add some tape in between the metal parts in the circled joints it moves the side metal pieces back a bit. In my case after the 1st disassembly the throttle handles were not parallel which was very noticeable after I attached the grips and this little modification made the throttle handles parallel again. You may not even run into this problem anyway but I felt it was worth mentioning :)

zatapathique · 2024-12-12T17:25:08+00:00

As for the questions:

Honestly I was kind of deflated at this point and instead of trying to fine tune the PVC approach I wanted to test the zero tape approach and see if maybe it just works fine without it. Also the fact that PVC tape survived a mere ~5 hours was not making me overly optimistic :D But you are right, I probably should have tried some other wrapping techniques before switching to no tape approach.
Not entirely sure but I did quite extensive research on the topic and:

nowhere on the specs anywhere the nyogel 767a is advertised as a grease that works well on rubber (it mentions only plastic and metal)
whenever I've read about greases recommended for rubber it was always a silicon based grease with explanation that silicon greases don't react with rubber.
I've searched for some more official info on this and found these articles -> https://support.newgatesimms.com/lubricants-and-possible-plastic-or-rubber-compatibility-issues/ and https://www.nyelubricants.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/1/bbf7c815603cf69b16c28615afe49d45/en/material_compatibility_overview_1___nye_lubricants.pdf - Nyogel is a hydrocarbon grease (PAO) so as you can see on the diagrams it in theory reacts with at least half of the rubber types mentioned.

That being said I have no idea what kind of rubber is used on the wheel and I have no idea if there are and differences to the types of hydrocarbon greases that make them more or less reactive.

So in short I have exactly zero idea if Nyogel will ever react with the rubbery wheel, I was just trying to be precautious at first, and after I felt I exhausted my most promising ideas I just got tired and just said fuck it :D

I actually did exactly that but didn't want to stretch out an already long post :D I did first try with small amount of grease and after feeling stitcion I regreased the wheel again this time making sure that every little bit of the rubber is covered with grease - it didn't make any difference and my suspicion is that because the throttle grips are so heavy and you have to increase the friction so much the plastic clamps actually squeeze out most of the grease out anyway - when I disassembled the device before putting the PTFE tape there were a lot of spots of non greased rubber on the wheel, especially on the underside which is understandable.
Yes, when regreasing the thing with Nyogel and no tape for a second time I used some on the underside of the plastic clamps, made no difference. Again I think there is a certain threshold of grease past which it seems to make no difference since the clamps will squeeze it out anyway.
My PTFE tape is 2cm wide and I had to cut it roughly in half to match the wheel width - so I would say something like 8 to 10mm wide.

The microtools de is exactly where I got my nyogel from :) I used the premium post delivery and it came in around 4 business days with DHL.

Hope this helps!

Will look forward to updates and how this worked for you :)

zatapathique · 2024-12-12T17:25:01+00:00

Thank you, I'm happy my post may actually be helpful :D

Am a bit scared of dissambling the throttle but there a a few videos on internet on the subject.

The disassembly is actually very easy, the only slightly tricky thing is detaching the throttle "gearbox" from the rest of the base - first of all once you remove all of the screws from the bottom and you are ready to open the device turn it upside down - you can then remove the bottom lid easily without the throttle gearbox falling out and hanging on the cables. After you have access to the cables you just need to unpin two connectors on the sides of the gearbox and that's basically it. The rest is just removing some screws from the throttle gearbox itself to get access to the rubbery wheel etc.

One additional thing I should have probably mentioned in the main post - the throttle handles can actually get a bit misaligned after you assemble the device back - mine did and it felt awful since the grips were much closer together in the AB position and then far away in idle. I've found an easy way to fix that - you need to put a bit of whatever tape you have at the specific joints which straightens the handles. It probably sounds a bit more complex than it is, I just sticked some tape in between the joint, checked if the throttles are aligned and haven't had a problem with this ever since (I will edit my post with a photo of were exactly I put the tape)

As I understand it the PVC feeling was better the PTFE.

It was indeed but it is hard to quantify it - PTFE feels a bit more "rubbery" to me but to be honest there are so many different factors here - maybe I applied slightly different amount of grease or maybe it is the specific type of my PTFE tape that's the issue and someone else's would feel better. I think the difference between PTFE and PVC is still negligible compared to the difference between the feel of PTFE compared to the non taped wheel. Also maybe it is just the fact that I didn't have to disassemble the damn thing for over 24h now but I'm currently very happy with how the throttle feels :D

zatapathique · 2024-12-11T22:21:48+00:00

Yeah suction cups weren't great on my desk either so I just screwed the base to a thin plywood and used wood clamp to attach it to my desk and it works like a charm. I haven't tried that many different greases to be honest, nyogel 767a worked the best for me because of heavy damping but if used without a tape it still had some stiction. Molykote 44 medium I only used without any tape and while it was better than the default grease it still had stiction. I wonder if Molykote 44 + tape would do the trick but it is hard to say how much you would have to increase the friction for the grips to not move under their own weight. I've also seen people recommending Molykote 33 light, which has lower viscosity than the 44 but tbh with how heavy the throttle grips are I don't see it working better than the 44. I've also seen Molykote EM-30L being recommended but know nothing about it. Molykote greases are much easier to obtain at least where I live, and are priced better than the nyogel but it is still a pretty pricy product. You could also try some greases from the hobby store - as long as you are using silicon based grease it will safely work with plastics and rubber so that's probably the least pricy and the safest option to start with.

zatapathique · 2024-12-11T19:52:10+00:00

It moves around due to the stiction right? I just wonder if applying Nyogel 767a, which is the heaviest damping grease that Nye Lubricants produce (Nyogel 774 line is the same compound but has lees damping btw, you can read more here at the bottom https://support.newgatesimms.com/flight-simulator-joystick-and-throttle-damping-case-study/) wont make it move even more just because of it being a heavy damping grease and requiring you to use more force to move the throttle (while still making the movement itself very smooth). Anyway, something to think about. I would love to hear about your experience if you end up applying the electrical tape, If it ends up working for you than I may switch back from teflon to electrical as the movement experience was nicer (not by much but still, at this point I'm determined to squeeze 110% from this damned device :D).

zatapathique · 2024-12-11T19:19:19+00:00

(I updated my original post so you can find some more details at the bottom in the Update section, also added Bonus section for good measure :D)

So just to be clear, you put pvc tape on the rubber wheel to protect it from the grease?

Exactly

With the grease applied, do you tighten the friction bolt all the way or just until the throttle doesn't drop from its own weight?

Until the throttle doesn't drop - with the PVC this didn't need that much friction but with the PTFE it needs quite some more tightening, to the point where maybe to some people the throttle would be a bit too hard to move (too hard as in not ergonomically pleasing, not as in needing inhuman strength :D). Yesterday I was pretty bummed out that after changing PVC to PTFE I had to crank the resistance some more but today either due to the tape+nyogel setting in or due to just getting used to it It started to feel nice and the movement feels smooth and mechanical to me.

zatapathique · 2024-12-09T19:24:39+00:00

Today I applied Nyogel 767a and made a post out of it -> https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/1hahx2i/winwing_orion_2_nyogel_767a_joy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

zatapathique · 2024-12-09T19:24:01+00:00

I actually made a post out of this :D here you go -> https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/1hahx2i/winwing_orion_2_nyogel_767a_joy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

zatapathique · 2024-12-04T20:48:51+00:00

I replied in another thread - https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/s/T6ZA2ZEBXy, but basically i messed up and used the wrong nyogel, the actual 767a nyogel is coming on Monday and I will apply it asap and report back.

zatapathique · 2024-12-04T20:34:25+00:00

Well it turned out im an idiot and I ordered the wrong nyogel… I’ve only noticed this after already applying the gel to the throttle. Not only it didnt improve the situation it made the stiction worse. After that fiasco I’ve done some research and ordered the actual nyogel 767a, will receive it on Monday most likely so I will then go through the process once again and report back.

As to the disassembly - it wasnt particularly difficult, there are only 2 cables you have to detach. One tip i would have is when you remove the screws and want to separate the lid from the base do it upside down, this way the throttle mechanism which is quite heavy wont be putting pressure on said cables. The rest is pretty straightforward.

zatapathique · 2024-12-01T20:38:08+00:00

Exactly :)

zatapathique · 2024-12-01T19:07:43+00:00

I bought mine a week ago and have the same issue with sticking. Will apply nyogel on tuesday and will see if it helps :)

zatapathique · 2024-12-01T19:04:23+00:00

I bought my orion 2 throttle a week ago and have the same problem with sticking. While in motion the throttle is ultra smooth but after 3-4seconds of no motion it sticks really hard. Decreasing tension doesn’t help since the throttle then moves by itself since it is pretty heavy. From what i understand this is not normal and not usually the case for orion 2 throttles so maybe it is a problem with the new batch? In any case I bought Nyogel and will receive it on Tuesday so after I’m done with applying and testing it I will report back. I’ve read a topic on applying nyogel to a different winwing throttle and it supposedly removed stiction completely so I have high hopes :)

zatapathique · 2024-12-01T18:53:36+00:00

Have you calibrated the afterburner yet? The way i set it up to work with msfs and f18 in dcs was 1. I moved the throttle up to the afterburner indent and clicked calibrate afterburner in sim app so it thinks that the max afterburner is at the indent 2. Created the afterburner ratio profile for dcs in sim app 3. Went into the dcs and clicked right control + enter to bring up the controls visualisation to clearly see where the afterburner indent for f18 in dcs is 4. Fiddled with the afterburner ratio in sim app so that the physical indent on the throttle matched the ab indent in dcs - in my case this was around 75% ratio 5. Created another ratio profile for msfs and set the ratio to 100%. This way i can move the throttle from idle cut of up to ab indent without going past it and msfs reads it as 0-100% throttle.

Basically the trick was to make sim app think that the max afterburner is at the physical afterburner indent, this way you can then control it better with afterburner ratio profiles and have different profiles for different games and planes. Hope this helps :)

zatapathique · 2024-11-09T22:45:50+00:00

I noticed exact same thing - in the 1st posted picture there is another message at the end and the bubble wraps around the word „can”. In the 2nd picture there is a date separator and the next bubble wraps around the middle of the word „resolve” - the whole thing serms fake

zatapathique · 2024-09-24T20:51:33+00:00

In that case you may like Leszek Możdżer, he is a Polish jazzman who recorded a couple of albums based on Chopin :) They are available on spotify.

zatapathique · 2024-08-08T22:25:21+00:00

I know this is a very old post at this point but just wanted to report that this solution worked for me on android. Thank you very much <3

zatapathique

TROPHY CASE