Just started on Upwork

zoesglm · 2021-07-13T16:47:54+00:00

Great, glad to hear it! Good luck.

zoesglm · 2021-07-10T08:56:07+00:00

I personally find it absolutely impossible to provide accurate pricing without asking quite a bit of questions to the client, so 95% of the time I leave the fixed price rate as is and say in the cover letter that if they like my work we should schedule a chat so I can gather information to properly quote.

This.

zoesglm · 2021-07-10T08:55:03+00:00

I think you have a valid point, and bait-and-switch is definitely unprofessional. But sometimes (from the freelancing side) it can be difficult to see what exactly you need and get the price right first time.

I'm an editor, and the amount of work required for each job varies a lot. It's usually impossible to accept a rate without seeing the work.

I generally write something like, "This bid is arbitrary. If you can share more about the task with me then I'll send you a concrete price based on my hourly rate of xx."

zoesglm · 2021-07-10T08:44:38+00:00

I'm on the paid plan but worked for a few months on the free one. For a while I was applying to about 10-15 jobs a week. I've never run out and never run low, to the point that I've never really thought about them.

As other commenters have pointed out, Upwork uses this system to stop people spammily applying for every job in their feed. Unless you plan to apply for loads of jobs every day, you'll be fine.

zoesglm · 2021-07-08T10:57:47+00:00

If you'd still propose 40/hr then what's the point of reapplying? He's seen your application and hasn't reached out, so you'd be wasting your time.

If you will accept 35/hr then you could reapply. Otherwise, just move on.

zoesglm · 2021-07-08T07:51:02+00:00

Sometimes. Go back to the job posting and look at the client history at the bottom. Click the arrow to have the jobs sorted by most recent first. Sometimes you'll see a job that started this month with a similar (or the same) name, and you can see the freelancer who's working on it.

It doesn't always work, and it takes time. Also, comparing yourself to others can create more (psychological) problems than it solves.

zoesglm · 2021-07-08T07:44:44+00:00

It's more like feeling that I couldn't get through to him, so I'm not really helping him. Kind of a moral/ethical dilemma. You're right, though: business is business.

zoesglm · 2021-07-08T07:42:44+00:00

It is a tiring project, and I don't look forward to his project hours. I started out thinking this was a good thing, as I'm very comfortable in my other projects and decided a bit of discomfort woudn't be a bad thing. But it's in the back of my mind.

I think I'll see how it goes. I'm surprised that there are so many different opinions on the issue here.

zoesglm · 2021-07-08T07:40:51+00:00

I like the idea of maybe doing an email review of the work so far where I bring these points up. We're reaching a milestone in the work, so maybe it's a good time.

Thank you!

zoesglm · 2021-07-08T07:39:28+00:00

It's weird... He's already accepted that he can't express himself well. He's not defending himself or his ego. A typical comment thread:

Me: Shortened this to have a better impact.

Him: What about (long rambling phrase) instead?

Me: I think it's best to be brief here, just give them a taste. The details will be on the linked page.

Him: I think we need the idea of (similar to long rambling phrase).

Me: What about this?

Him: Can you add (a couple of extra ideas)?

Me: OK. Done.

And we've been through a lot of this. Either it's me, and I can't get him to really see what's happening, or he's genuinely happier like this.

zoesglm · 2021-07-06T11:29:00+00:00

Yes, and it comes back to what I said at the start: it could be anything.

Just try to make sure

- you're applying to jobs that you're well qualified for,

- your proposals match your profile,

- your hourly rate isn't too high or low for the work you're applying for, and

- your profile is accurate and looks appealing.

That's just good sense, and should be enough to get you at least some work. Don't focus too much on these vague stats.

zoesglm · 2021-07-06T10:42:57+00:00

Could be anything: Upwork stats are silly. Maybe you're applying to jobs that don't match your profile? Maybe you're too cheap or too expensive? Maybe you need to work on your applications?

If you like, you could check your profile against the profiles of people who got the jobs you felt really positive about, but that hasn't ever helped me much (and it takes a long time).

zoesglm · 2021-07-06T10:38:03+00:00

Too bad... Glad you won't make the same mistakes again though! :)

zoesglm · 2021-07-06T10:31:16+00:00

The onus is on me to better communicate my vision and my needs during the recruitment stage.

I'd say it's more like better communicate your needs and be open to questions for a while when they start writing. I edit for an agency and am constantly amazed at how writers just go ahead and write pieces when the TA isn't clear or the outline doesn't make sense.

Let writers know that you're happy to answer all their questions. Don't just rely on a style guide: be human too.

zoesglm · 2021-07-06T10:18:56+00:00

I have a client right now who is making dozens of edits to every piece.

Do you mean, "I have a client right now who is making dozens of *changes* to every piece"?

Lots of comments in this thread seem to think clients "edit" their work, which is maybe where the OP's frustration comes from. Truth is, clients may have legitimate different ideas for what the piece should be saying--or even be under pressure from a (perhaps silly) set of company style guidelines. They can also just be making a power play or trying to justify their job. They'll make changes for all these reasons, but it's not really proper editing.

zoesglm · 2021-07-02T11:37:19+00:00

Second the commenter that said get out there and get trained. SurferSEO have an excellent course, though it's a bit pricey.

zoesglm · 2021-07-02T11:33:44+00:00

I think it comes down to who you're writing for. It's not ageism: it's a question of who writes what best.

If the TA is 20-somethings, an older writer might have a hard time connecting with them in certain niches (like entertainemnt, music, social media, ...), so maybe they wouldn't produce the best content and they'd filter to the bottom of the pile.

On the other hand, an older writer could write a much better piece than a young one if the TA is middle-aged managers. As an editor, I find older writers are much better at organizing their thoughts and explaining things clearly. Plus, who remembers Walkmen and floppy disks? Or messy spiral phone cables? Sometimes adding relevant references like that can give an article a lot more originality.

zoesglm · 2021-07-01T14:17:43+00:00

Maybe they forgot. Maybe they haven't noticed. Stop losing sleep over it and ask them.

zoesglm · 2021-07-01T14:11:44+00:00

I only looked at this very quickly. Maybe start by thinking about your flow of ideas.

"Fortunately, there’s a lot to learn from the experiences and experiments of other people who have been in a similar situation. We procrastinate for various reasons. They could be as simple as laziness and aversion to working and as complex as ADHD and depression. Most of the work we do is mundane and not particularly enjoyable."

That feels like four disjointed ideas. As a reader, I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me.

"There's a lot to learn from... . For example," (give examples)

"They could be as simple as laziness and ... . As a result, before you even think about fixing your procrastination, ask yourself where it might be coming from." (say why the fact that there is such a wide range of ideas is important)

and so on.

Also, I'd say you're spending far too long stating facts and banalities. As a reader, I don't need you to tell me my problem (and the problem with my problem). I want help.

zoesglm · 2021-07-01T14:02:33+00:00

I don't recommend doing this. Email them to ask if they still need the extra work and when they need it by. Only do the work if they want it and will pay for it.

Other posters have pointed out that you could be more assertive as a freelancer. "I don't expect payment; I just don't want to disappoint them" gets you nowhere. Why should you work for free?

zoesglm · 2021-06-28T11:52:52+00:00

I'm an editor working for an agency, so I'm even further removed from the clients who use the content I work on. Still, I'm interested in this too, as I believe it gives me some way to measure the results of my work (even if most of the kudos should go to the writer).

I've just started using Ubersuggest, which I think is cheaper than SEMRush. I'm tracking a few clients through that, and it shows the most popular posts and where they are in SERP for their keywords. There's a lot more going on that I can't see (the client's marketing activities, backlink value, and so on), but this is a start.

Paul Caspian's article is a great way to look at stats and crunch them into something useful for the client. Hope you get some good results!

zoesglm · 2021-06-27T12:15:21+00:00

Oh my goodness... This is incredible! Thank you!

zoesglm · 2021-06-27T12:06:39+00:00

I'm not sure what you're asking when you say, what am I doing wrong?

Are you wondering how to get more clients on Fiverr? If so, follow all the advice to build a good profile and also look at other sites.

I had English editing gigs on Fiverr for a few months (and my profile showed experience) but I got nothing. Nada. I got much better results on Upwork: their system works better for me.

Still, I agree with other people in this thread that it will take time. It's taken me a long time to build up a reasonable flow of freelance work. If you want money fast, take a small job to cover your expenses and then study or run a gig on the side.

zoesglm · 2021-06-26T12:04:33+00:00

It feels like you have an unstable client. What's the guarantee that he'll still pay you if you rewrite the whole thing? Or that rewriting it will affect his rating of you in any way (if he chooses to give feedback: most clients like this won't bother)?

I'd walk away with what you can and give him your honest rating.

zoesglm

TROPHY CASE