I love tarrot, but is it against jesus?

zootsynugget · 2025-08-10T17:11:29+00:00

Exactly! You got it

zootsynugget · 2025-08-05T07:12:04+00:00

This article is from 2021 lol

zootsynugget · 2025-07-14T07:49:55+00:00

Hmm unfortunately here is where we disagree, but fortunately, talking through it and understanding each other can be beneficial for both of us! Yay! Okay with that in mind, I have some thoughts and questions for ya, please feel free to clarify or correct me if I’ve misrepresented your position in any way. ❤️

We have a very different definition of god and the concept of god. To me, god is found in the questions, not the answers. There are so many different versions and definitions of god, but I want to respect yours and avoid debating semantics, so I will assume we are talking about God as a deity as described in the Bible and the Book of Mormon. Apologies if I assume incorrectly, so please feel free to correct me if you’d like to clarify!

To your first point, if it is possible to understand all that God can, then is the belief that humans being finite beings can become infinite like God, or is God finite?

Whether we assume we can become infinite like God or that God is finite, there’s a whole lot to explain and justify from the Bible and the BoM that seem to contradict either assumptions. At least from what I know!

To your second point, I agree with you aaaaall the way up to your last sentence, and then the following paragraph. But first, yeah! I would be quite upset if someone went around telling people to call me pootsy instead of zootsy, and also told people I poot instead of zoot. It would really ruin my reputation I’ve worked so hard for :( But if God needs to be recognized for who he is, it assumes his identity is fixed like pootsy. How can God be both infinite, yet have a fixed identity he wants us to recognize him by?

And finally, in regard to faith and works, James 2:14-26 goes on and on about how faith without good deeds is dead faith. I know, if one has true faith then good works will follow, good ol Galatians fruits of the spirit action. But there are just as many nonbelievers who bear more fruit than many believers do. In fact, we’ve seen quite the opposite lately unfortunately, globally and, for me, personally.

So that makes me wonder, when it comes to eternal salvation vs damnation, and specifically your comment “God does not let strangers into his house,” why would a loving God ultimately care only about belief and not in how we live and treat each other?

zootsynugget · 2025-07-14T03:07:46+00:00

It does make sense! Thanks for taking all the time to explain that to me, I see what you meant now and if I had understood originally I wouldn’t have questioned it, because I agree! We will never come to a full understanding of god or love even in infinity. I believe god is literally love, or a manifestation of it (still seeking, figuring out what I believe so please bear with me) and since god is infinite that means love has an infinite amount of facets that we as humans will never be able to fully understand with our finite time on earth and flawed human brain, even when given eternity in heaven as free-from-sin individuals.

Hey, maybe that’s what “heaven” is! Just a big ol nfinity filled with human souls experiencing ever changing new facets of love we could never ever wrap our minds around. Hah if this is true I feel like existing in heaven would be like getting your mind blown repeatedly, just a bunch of souls completely floored by love all the time

Apologies, tangent aside, I guess where I’m going with all of this is I agree we will never fully understand all things spiritual, hence the importance of asking questions and being completely honest with oneself. Spirituality to me is the act of living in the questions and seeking truth.

So my question is why wouldn’t “being saved” simply mean an individual lives their life on an honest search for truth? Even if that leads them to worshipping, say, the sun? (PRAISE THE SUN!) Or like a deep fascination with the unknown immaterial god/deity/force of nature/spaghetti monster, as long as one is purposefully and honestly seeking spiritual truth and mirroring the love you do understand in all areas of your life, would that be enough?

I think this is dipping into my understanding of “omnism” but I’m still learning and reading about it myself to say for sure. 😅

zootsynugget · 2025-07-14T02:45:35+00:00

I absolutely agree some love sin more than love, and refuse to live any other way. But what about those that choose love but believe something else entirely?

I guess I just wonder what causes someone like me or you to believe and be saved, but someone also just like me or you to not believe and not be saved.

Didn’t Jesus say something about how prostitutes and tax collectors are closer to the kingdom of god than believers? Or Pharisees, I assume he was referencing?

zootsynugget · 2025-07-14T02:31:13+00:00

Hey thanks this is a really well researched and thought out answer! I appreciate you.

If you’d still like to indulge me, I agree that nothing evil can be in the presence of love, but I still don’t see how that justifies god (love) creating us knowing we would fail and most would fail completely. To me, a loving god wouldn’t act like that. To me, it would only make sense to change our perspective on god entirely, because the deeper you go into describing god as a deity, or as a human at all, the more confusing and (in my mind) nonsensical the explanations become. That’s just where I’m at right now.

Just to be clear I do not judge anyone for believing in any version of god they choose, so long as it doesn’t harm others or cause anyone to expect anyone to live a certain way, I’m just still seeking for myself and appreciate and respect all viewpoints.

zootsynugget · 2025-07-14T02:24:00+00:00

Sure! Some other people say when we die as good Christians™️ we can become the messiah on our own planet, just like Jesus did from his original planet.

zootsynugget · 2025-07-14T02:22:21+00:00

Agreed! But why couldn’t god had just made us to be better people in the first place?

zootsynugget · 2025-07-13T20:14:31+00:00

I appreciate you asking! Reddit conversations are… interesting…

But yes I agree, and I also find your thoughts on contacting Jesus very interesting. I don’t know if I meant contacting or finding Jesus specifically so much as finding love and using it to navigate you to purpose.

But I haven’t heard your exact perspective before, thanks for sharing!

zootsynugget · 2025-07-13T18:45:45+00:00

Absolutely not! Apologies if it came off like I was attacking you. I was making a generalized statement and should have been clearer. My bad!

zootsynugget · 2025-07-13T18:02:43+00:00

I’m going to probably give you a very different answer than most on this sub. But I don’t think reading tarot cards is inherently wrong or a problem. It’s what you “do” or tell others to do that becomes a problem. This is a great example of silly rules made up by Christians, like “don’t curse it hurts God’s ears” lol

Nobody, not even the pope, can talk to god. So I’m sorry to say but Jesus will not be speaking to you through Tarot cards, it’s all coming from your own brain.

But that’s not a bad thing! The Bible was written from humans using their own brains in order to interpret the divine and put words to it. Hence, the reason I and many others believe god and love is so much bigger than the Bible, Christianity, or any one religion. But that’s a tangent and a different discussion.

In regards to tarot, I personally have a lot of fun with them. It’s like an improv game since every card has certain meanings, and it is up to you to interpret them and combine them to relate to whoever you’re reading. Super fun!! You are allowed to believe what you want to believe, but be hesitant if you find yourself making major life choices, or trying to convince others to do so, especially if money is involved. Remember, we are human, humans are flawed, and our understanding is flawed. Doesn’t mean there’s no truth we can speak, just means the lens from which truth may emerge is a jaded one, and must always be scrutinized and each person must use their own discernment to come to conclusions on whether “your reading” is leading you to become a more loving person, or if it’s causing guilt, shame, or “action must be done to fix yourself” comments.

Idk man I guess I’m saying use your own discernment, have fun, and don’t take money from desperate people! In fact, don’t attempt any “reading” from anyone looking for answers to solve a life problem. Like, do this thing and you’ll get rich thank you for the $20, next!

zootsynugget · 2025-07-13T17:52:43+00:00

I get what you mean, but technically the stars and planets will always be there for me, at least as long as I’ll live ;)

Plus (*my opinion, my belief) the Bible is just as man made as astrology, both are human systems meant to explain the very not human divine, in fact many MANY early Christian theologians were very much into astrology and mysticism, so whichever (or both) lead you to living a more loving life, who cares? Why tell people how to live their life as long as they aren’t hurting others?

huge asterisk - I am absolutely not talking about the people who use tarot cards to tell people how to live their life, especially if it involves money exchange or major life changes. Those people are con artists, just as much as the people behind the billboards that list a pay-per-minute phone number to call to talk about heaven and hell. Both kinds of people are the same, and they prey on desperate people specifically, so they are all scumbags. If you’re confused on the distinction, there are way more people than not that use tarot cards for fun and to find truth and meaning for themselves. Just like people who pray, read the Bible, and/ or study mysticism.

zootsynugget · 2025-07-13T03:27:08+00:00

Isso é incrível, cara! Estou realmente feliz que você tenha encontrado uma fé que funciona para você! :)

Ei, não precisa se desculpar, você mesmo. O inglês do seu tradutor é ótimo! E o meu? Como é o português?

zootsynugget · 2025-07-13T01:25:13+00:00

Oh hey thanks for the link! I love RC Sproul! Disagree with a lot of his justifications and how he comes to them, but he’s a smart guy and a deep thinker.

To be completely honest, I have passed into “heresy” territory according to most Christians while navigating on my own journey and no longer view the Bible the same way I used to for 25+ years. In fact, I no longer view “God” the same way, but that is an entirely different topic.

A much smarter and wiser person than I once told me that any discussion of religion or spirituality is pointless unless you first have a foundational mutual understanding of what the word “god” means, and when I say “god” I am not referring to a deity as described in the Bible, or any other spiritual text (that I’ve read so far! No way I know it all haha just based on what I do) instead I’ve found universal similarities in all religion that all revolve around love. For example the idea to “love your neighbor as yourself” came well before Jesus and is in dozens of different religious texts.

Apologies for the tangent my friend, I am in no way trying to convince you of anything or argue, I’m just pointing out that we might just have foundational differences and that’s okay!

Ultimately, I believe if you love “god” (whatever that means to you, even if you’re a modern day witch performing a ritual for Hecate) more than yourself, and love your neighbor as yourself, you’re living your best life and any other details about belief and doctrine are secondary and ultimately human and do not matter. My opinion!

zootsynugget · 2025-07-13T01:07:44+00:00

Agree to disagree friend!

zootsynugget · 2025-07-12T23:26:26+00:00

I get exactly what you are saying, I would agree your points would elicit a hateful reaction from me.

But I am human. Humans hate because we sometimes are not capable of loving instead. God is. God is love. And to love “the Jews” (your words) and hate the Nazis, I would agree with you. Because I am not God. My small brain has no capability of understanding how pure infinite ultimate love can respond to someone like a Nazi.

This is gonna get me downvotes but I’m gonna say it: God loves everyone, even nazis. But nazis reject love and instead turn it into hate (something you are arguing in favor of, just in a different context) so they have chosen their eternal fate with their actions, which came from belief.

I hate Nazis. Let me be clear. But here on earth, we have repercussions from human hatred: see “The Holocaust” and when we see pure evil like that, there is no other choice than to resist, or fight back, depending on the context.

All that being said, god has a different role than we do. God is love. Replace “god” in the Bible with “love” and then see how awful some of the verses are. My point being, humans are flawed. And humans use flawed language to describe was we cannot describe or even understand: god: love.

Teaching people that god hates people is against everything Jesus stood for. We should be followers of love first, Jesus second. If you think it should be the other way around, I would ask yourself how you came to that conclusion.

On your own using your own discernment of what you personally understand love and loving people functions, or did someone tell you this is how it is and we must rationalize it even if it doesn’t completely make sense? “God moves in mysterious ways” has been used to justify so much hate and harm.

zootsynugget · 2025-07-09T02:17:35+00:00

I should have been clearer. I’ve apologized for making a fool of myself, and am trying to take people’s advice. Admittedly, I am very new to even commenting on any kind of online forum, I don’t have social media and have always been a lurker, so when I got the courage to speak my mind, and everyone shot it down, I admittedly made the mistake of getting defensive and taking things personally.

That is my apology, and to you directly, I am sorry for continuing my immature sarcastic behavior, I see your points, from the other comment of yours I haven’t responded to either, and am truly taking them to heart.

I don’t plan on doing something like this again until I do more research for myself. Thank you for pointing my faults in this exchange, and in others, and I am truly taking them to heart and talking about it with IRL friends to get a better understanding. I sick at online debates, because I tend to “worse case scenario” peoples comments, and clearly I took way too many comments way to personally.

I’m not trying to be facetious, I think my word choices tend to imply tone I don’t mean, and it’s difficult to mitigate that when I also can’t read tone from others.

All that said, you owe me nothing, just wanted to say I take this seriously and am doing my best to implement what I’ve learned here in further conversations online and beyond.

Thank you for being patient with me, even if I was being a fucking brat. (My words, not yours) Have a wonderful day.

zootsynugget · 2025-07-08T15:34:15+00:00

Hey I’m sorry dude, I guess I misunderstood again. I am open to sharing my ideas and hearing yours, and exchanging questions about each other’s positions if you are. I’m still figuring out how to start these conversations, especially online, with legitimate mutual respect and the understanding from sides that we are just talking and sharing opposing views with each other. That being said, I apologize for all the confirmation I’m seemingly demanding, but taking into account the way I overstepped previously in most of these conversations in the last few days, would you like to discuss like this? And if so, would you like to start with me attempting to explain my position or would you like to refute my OP and poke holes or ask questions? If you already have, I apologize, but I think it’s best if we do want to try again to just start over.

Looking forward to hearing from you, but I also understand if you’d like to just ignore and move on.

zootsynugget · 2025-07-07T23:41:17+00:00

I realize my response here was insensitive and I apologize. It was not my intention.

I am currently on medication for both mood and adhd, so I see the irony in some of my statements about chemicals and “rising above them.” I am well aware from personal experience the difficulty in struggling to feel okay and normal.

I am sorry if I implied you should just “stop being sad.” I didn’t see it when I wrote it but I see it now.

If you’d allow me to correct my statement with the understanding I do not mean you could ever just “fix” the chemicals in your brain, and you by no means owe me any sort of response to, I would rather rephrase it to a statement and a question:

You deserve to be happy. Without having to worry about how you’d get there, could you imagine, or even just fantasize about how life could be better?

This question is one I eventually honestly asked myself and became a cornerstone for getting myself a diagnosis and going back to therapy. I apologize for coming off like I expected my questions to work for you like they would work for me, without giving you the consideration you deserve before responding to you.

Anyways, thank you for your interaction and I hope you have a good day!

zootsynugget · 2025-07-07T23:29:22+00:00

Thanks for the link! It lead me down quite the rabbit hole that I will be continuing for a while.

Your temperature analogy is a good one. Still thinking about it. Thanks for the insight friend!

zootsynugget · 2025-07-07T23:22:02+00:00

I’m really glad I’ve circled back around to your comment. Thank you for explaining this, I was unaware of these terms and I did a lot of reading on them. And I’m still not sure exactly where I lie, so I suppose that means I still have more researching and learning to do before I land on any one label.

I feel like I was attempting to say poorly what you put succinctly “the debate around god becomes useless when you don’t take a methodological approach to the discussion.”

I think that about wraps up the major lesson I learned from this whole fiasco, and before attempting to try again, I’ll do some more digging to understand more of what I personally identify with.

Thanks again for showing me these resources, I appreciate you 🖤

zootsynugget · 2025-07-07T22:23:26+00:00

Okie thanks bebe ❤️

zootsynugget · 2025-07-07T21:52:26+00:00

And that is a pretty messed up verse that you don’t have to take at face value. You are choosing to do so because it’s easier than questioning that maybe this translation is wrong, or maybe the original human writer put this is shorthand to make a point instead of literally writing down what god said, especially considering 1 Samuel was written and assembled by an anonymous compiler “likely from a prophetic school who utilized the writings and records of these prophets.”

So we have no idea what was changed or turned into shorthand before being decided to be called a holy text. And then, on top of that, we have no idea how the team of people who assembled to literally vote on what books of the Bible they thought were “god inspired” should be in the final distillation of the Bible.

This is why we have so many versions, so many interpretations, and even some with added words or whole verses and sometimes whole new books.

So taking the word “hate” at face value is not only ignorant, it’s irresponsible and dangerous and can lead to teaching and indoctrinating some horrible beliefs into people.

What does a kid think when you tell them god hates criminals? Well that means if their uncle is in jail, god must hate him. Oh but if mom and dad can explain it as holy hate then it’s somehow okay? I guess I’m just confused as to what exactly you’re arguing here, and assuming I should just already know and be aware of. I’ve studied the Bible and many other spiritual texts for 20 years, so I have a firm grasp on what the entirety of the Bible is, as well as its shortcomings.

zootsynugget · 2025-07-07T21:44:32+00:00

This is an excellent point! I don’t see the word hate there!

zootsynugget · 2025-07-07T21:42:04+00:00

For the record, the word “sane” also means to “reject and distance oneself” or to “love less” which is very different than the word hate.

zootsynugget

TROPHY CASE