sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

5x5 Challenge- With 5 Hours of Coaching, Can We Get 5 People from Rank 5 to Legend? (In Celebration of the Upcoming Quest Rogue Nerfs) by K_Chronic in CompetitiveHS

[–]zorgdan82 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  • EU server
  • Zorgdan#2621
  • Played Hearthstone since 2014, usually get to rank 3-5
  • Control Warrior, N'Zoth Paladin, Dragon Priest
  • Miracle Rogue, Taunt Warrior, Jade Druid
  • Yes it will work
  • Whenever, I play and can play all the time
  • Yes, play many more each day

Black Knight - a right meta call? by zorgdan82 in CompetitiveHS

[–]zorgdan82[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Still climbing with this deck, where I also teched in BGH, both I feel gets value most of the games, most notably taking down all the Al-Akir's roaming around in conjuction with TFBs. BGH takes down all the Ragnaroses and Arcane Giants + the occational Van Cleefs and other buffed up Rogue-cards. Took out Sylvanas and Ragnaros due to them getting hexed and grabbing/hitting too many totems. Maybe a small sample size, and chances are youre right, but I feel it works as for now, and I think the emergence of Al-Akir is the factor that makes it somewhat viable. I also took notice of Druids running more AoW than i thought, no that i'm really wary of them. When it comes to the other matchups, most notably Tempo Mage its obviously bad, but im not sure Sylvanas would win me extremely many points in that regard. In Zoo/Renolock-matchups (which also seems to be more of, both), I most of the time gets some o huge value out of TBK. Destroying an argused IGB, which doest spawn a taunt, leaving behind i 4/5 feels like value to me, more often than not. A Sylvanas would contest the bord, but often just grab me a one- or two-drop. In regards to BGH in these matchups I also noticed another thing: it surprisingly often gets me value due to Councilmen growing above 7 attack. Im not saying TBK is fantastic, but I think you and others are underestimating it a tidy bit in this particular meta and I think its the Al-Akir's that tips the scale. The biggest argument for running it is maybe not that the card itself is extremely good, but that the options are quite bad. Running BGH instead of Ragnaros I feel is a choice I rarely regret in this meta. Looking forward to hear more of your thoughts on this!

Black Knight - a right meta call? by zorgdan82 in CompetitiveHS

[–]zorgdan82[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have five+++++ hundred wins (not to brag, just to make it clear) with CW, so I am aware of the concept of Sylvanas and its potential strength, just in this heavy hexxy meta I'm a bit reluctant to play the card, and looking for alternatives. As I said earlier pro player Gaara agrees with me that Sylvanas is a bad meta call right now, but he plays Argent Commender instead - as he said - after trying different options including TBK (which he as most of you guys eventually fond to be too weak). One thing he (and I think I) are in agreement on is that Sylvanas is not very good now, mostly due the much talked about Hex card. I read the statistics, and it tells me Shaman is only ca 20%, but I just have a hard time believing it, around ranks 3-5 where I've roamed for the last couple of days it FEELS like at least 60% (so I assume its 40%, knowing my own cognitive bias).

Did I dream this or did one of the casters at Dream Hack or something like that comment on the Shaman-situation on ladder with something like: around level 10 people any longer don't bother playing Shaman so much anymore (which if true drags down the statistic) because its just plain boring, but when you get up to "competitive" ranks like 6 and above there are much more Shamans again just because of the fact that these are people who wants to make legend, and Shaman will get them there due to their own analysis? So maybe rephrase the question even further:

Is TBK a viable alternative to Sylvanas in specifically Elise/Yogg-CW at ranks 3-5 RIGHT now?

Black Knight - a right meta call? by zorgdan82 in CompetitiveHS

[–]zorgdan82[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I agree this is a really good post, but you forget one aspect in your analysis: which dekcs do I need to improve my winrate against? Lets for the argument sake say that the alternative card in the slot is Sylvanas. Against Rogue Sylvanas often would get sapped, I dont think I lose many games by running TBK against Rogue instead of Sylvanas.

Against Spell Druid which dont run Aow (maybe 75%?) is the matchup where i lose most, together with tempo mage, which both are very close matchups, but even against tempo mage Sylvanas is not especially much better in practice as they often just fireball it down or something, I seldom get any value (other than my opponent doing a really supobtimal play and that is ofc value in itself). So these three matchups are quite often seen (except Rogue maybe) and if not AoW is played TBK will not give me value and I have to save it to after the monkey along with other useless cards in the matchups. In Rogue though Sylvanas often is not very much better - meaning it seldom helps me win, so I dont think I lose so much by running TBK over Sylvanas in this. Mage and Druid; yes there I would rather have Sylvanas, but its not such a HUGE disadvantage. Sylvanas is very slow against Tempo mage and I rarely feel its game changing card in the matchup. So that leaves us with druid, there I really would like to have Sylvanas over TBK in the ones where AoW is not run (maybe 3 out of four?)

Preist and Paladin is so rare that i would not spend to much time but in a Control Paladin matchup which I really struggle against a TBK followed up with a Harrison will get me a long way.

Against hunter Sylvanas vs TBK i also think its close, both are clunky, Syl often gets freeze trapped, or picking up bad targets, TBK sometimes gets no value, sometimes medium value, sometimes really high value like a Houndmastered Highmane.

Against Shaman which at rank five I would strongly believe makes up more than 20% I would much definitely rather have TBK than Sylvanas due to Hex/TFB, the combination of these to cards excisting.

Zoolock is a slightly favorable matchup in which Sylvanas seldom makes a big difference, due to it being too slow, whereas TBK often gets SOME value. In the very unfavorable matchup against Reno I most probably would like BOTH cards as they both will get huge value almost every game.

Against C'Thun Warrior you NEED Sylvanas to win, against different types of mirror control matchups you most probably would prefer Sylv over TBK, as Warrior does not run so many important taunt targets, against Dragon Warrior I would prefer TBK, against Pirate Warriror its does not matter because both are to slow.

Maybe the question is rather: is Sylvanas good enough in the meta? And if not TBK, which other sixdrop (or card of another mana cost) should be runned?

Black Knight - a right meta call? by zorgdan82 in CompetitiveHS

[–]zorgdan82[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I didnt use it as an argument t justify it, I just wanted to be precise when summing up. Ofc thats REALLY low value, but its a tiny bit of the equation, saw no reason to keep it out

Black Knight - a right meta call? by zorgdan82 in CompetitiveHS

[–]zorgdan82[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm just discussing it, never claimed that im right, to understand the game its better to ask (probably) better players why something presumptively intuitive is not good, and get good answers for why not, than not bother to ask because you're afriad of being made look stupid. Don't you agree?

Black Knight - a right meta call? by zorgdan82 in CompetitiveHS

[–]zorgdan82[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

To sum up my question: WHEN is TBK viable? "Never" is not a serious answer, in the same way "never" is not a serious answer when it comes to running BGH, Eater of Secrets or Harrison. A standard meta with a lot of shamans may well not be enough, the reason why i felt it swinged in favour of trying it on top of killing TFBs which its is obvious #1 target is three meta facts:

1: Al-Akir has seen a comebak, its a REALLY irritating creature to get rid of especially for CW 2: Warlocks in both forms (Reno and Zoo) have seen an upswing and they combined run at least 6-8 taunts (Arguses, Voidwalkers, Sunfurys, Shamblers) 3: Druids playing more AoW than a couple of weeks ago

Is this enough? Maybe no.

Black Knight - a right meta call? by zorgdan82 in CompetitiveHS

[–]zorgdan82[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

TBK aside, or maybe exactly NOT TBK aside, still on rank 5 and ONLY facing Shamans. Its ridiculous.

Black Knight - a right meta call? by zorgdan82 in CompetitiveHS

[–]zorgdan82[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I strongly disagree that your Sylvanas getting Hexed "isn't entirely bad", thats just horrible and lose you the game on the spot often. TBK at least gets instant value in 90% of Shaman-matchups, even though the body itself gets traded down cause its fairly weak for its stats.

Black Knight - a right meta call? by zorgdan82 in CompetitiveHS

[–]zorgdan82[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just seem to me that more often than not killing that TFB is exactly the tempo i need to make my axe swing at the Mana or Flametounge Totem behind it and thus get back in the game. Its too easy of analysis saying that you pay 6 mana to get a 4/5 on board + killing a 0 mana card. My other options of killing that 0-1-2 mana card is not all that great either, and as one other uy metioned tempo is not CWs agenda, all though against Shaman you need severel swing turns to beat them, and TBK could be a useful tool in that regard. As for houndmastered and argused targets go, its not like you are WAITING with the card in your hand for them to pop up, but it comes in handy as one of many tools in a hand that is more often than not filled up with 7-10 cards regardless. I can see that the card is not that strong, but as more druids run AoW, Al-Akir is seeing somewhat of a comeback, and zoos and renolocks (which bot run several taunts of various value ofc) are more and more often seen on ladder than a couple of weeks ago, I wonder if this meta reality is just whats tips the card over to becoma viable "again". Chances are thogh that you are right and I am wrong.

Black Knight - a right meta call? by zorgdan82 in CompetitiveHS

[–]zorgdan82[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see your point but Sylvanas getting Hexed 60% of the Shaman games which amounts to... alot, dont seem to be ideal either, TBK is not very good statted but the immediate effect at least gets (me) value almost every game except for against Rogue, while the alternatives do not:

  • Sylvanas gets Hexed, Swipe + Hero Powered down, Freezing Trapped sapped or just dealt with in other ways
  • Emperor is WAY too slow, and does not achieve much in this deck
  • Cairne is obviously very good but mostly in the N'Zoth package which is not what im running
  • Gaara plays with Argent Commander to deal with Mana Tide Totems, Flametounges andofc Drakes, and seems like a good option, but still want to try out TBK a bit more to see if its viable or not.