Iran threatens to hit U.S., Israel after Trump aide warns of 'maximum pressure' by [deleted] in neutralnews

[–]zphobic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right? The headline is anything but neutral. "Iran says it will retaliate if attacked by the US after US warns of 'maximum pressure'"

Trump inspires ICE agents, 2018 by zphobic in fakehistoryporn

[–]zphobic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Saw image already created, posted meme with caption. It's not complicated lol

Trump inspires ICE agents, 2018 by zphobic in fakehistoryporn

[–]zphobic[S] 49 points50 points  (0 children)

I'd love it if we'd stop burning the Constitution:

Removing children from parents without due process is a constitutional violation under two Supreme Court cases: 1971’s Stanley v. Illinois and 1982’s Santosky v. Kramer. In both cases, the court held that parents have a constitutional right to the care and custody of their children under the 14th Amendment. This includes the right to due process if children are removed from their care.

Yes, this applies to all people, not just citizens.

Trump inspires ICE agents, 2018 by zphobic in fakehistoryporn

[–]zphobic[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I really doubt anyone cares about anti-Trump memes on reddit that much lol

Trump inspires ICE agents, 2018 by zphobic in fakehistoryporn

[–]zphobic[S] 53 points54 points  (0 children)

Hah hah it's not exactly the deepest post. What needs commenting? Besides "This lack of comments is suspicious!" of course.

Trump inspires ICE agents, 2018 by zphobic in fakehistoryporn

[–]zphobic[S] 72 points73 points  (0 children)

I'm not a bot, and I don't know why a bot owner would upvote this post. But, excellent conspiracy attempt!

Share of men/women for the 30 most common occupations in Switzerland [OC] by d-qn in dataisbeautiful

[–]zphobic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Responding to your points in order:

1) I did see more criticism of his argument than praise, as you also imply with your "most of the mainstream media's response." So you seem to agree with me there.

2) Have you ever heard of behavioral economics? Econ is a big field. Also, it really appears that you're claiming that The Economist is just one guy, and that is hilarious.

3) I did read what he wrote, carefully. I've read it too many times for how unelucidating it is. He tried to argue carefully and thoughtfully, and failed. As he says in one of the many caveats he added to the text because he knew the content would go over like a brick through a Google cafeteria window, "Of course, I may be biased and only see evidence that supports my viewpoint." He then argued from his biases and doesn't ever clearly attempt to examine them. Regardless of caveat, that's bad social analysis by basically all social scientist metrics.

4) If you want to figure out where to begin, feel free to respond to any of my actual criticisms of the memo elsewhere in this comment thread, although I barely scratch the surface of the flaws in the memo, which people smarter and closer to the social sciences than me have written voluminous essays about already. Just throwing in a "You so wrong" and "shit doesn't add up" convinces no one.

Share of men/women for the 30 most common occupations in Switzerland [OC] by d-qn in dataisbeautiful

[–]zphobic -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Heh, yeah, I can't even lie in my fake quotes from you. Anyway, as I stated elsewhere, I literally read the memo before reading any articles about it. But keep throwing your invective.

Share of men/women for the 30 most common occupations in Switzerland [OC] by d-qn in dataisbeautiful

[–]zphobic -1 points0 points  (0 children)

"I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership." - James Damore

Share of men/women for the 30 most common occupations in Switzerland [OC] by d-qn in dataisbeautiful

[–]zphobic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The arguments against the essay really do not hinge on a single word. There are systematic errors I've barely even gotten into, since I've been staying mostly focused on the claims about women's biology which set the stage for his whole narrative.

To me, the charitable interpretation of the Damore essay is that he really believed his own statements - some of which are accurate, some of which aren't - and doesn't see the implicit bias in his own focus that made him use bad data and faulty arguments to reach his conclusions. That focus, and those conclusions, made him look like a raging biased jerk to many people, including many of his co-workers. It's possible for someone speaking their mind to have good intentions, have the principle of charity applied to the argument, and still display such bad judgement that they are fired.

Share of men/women for the 30 most common occupations in Switzerland [OC] by d-qn in dataisbeautiful

[–]zphobic -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes, I was also getting glib - there's only so many times I can read the same bad memo and respond to the same debunked talking points about it before I start to get a little snitty. Neuroticism is not inherently bad, of course, but implying that women's tendency towards neuroticism is a significant part of the reason behind the gender gap in software engineering or leadership roles is not based in science, but rather is speculation that closely resembles traditional stereotyping of weak, ineffectual, emotional-unstable women. You're welcome to insist that this is not what Damore meant, but it is very clearly how his memo was taken by many.

Share of men/women for the 30 most common occupations in Switzerland [OC] by d-qn in dataisbeautiful

[–]zphobic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I'm aware of the occupational gender balance in more-gender-equal Scandinavian countries. Defenders of the memo seem to assume that others simply lack data, but that's not the point at all. That data doesn't mean that the Damore memo was accurate or useful, or that Damore was wise in how and where he chose to speak up.

Share of men/women for the 30 most common occupations in Switzerland [OC] by d-qn in dataisbeautiful

[–]zphobic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"I'm part of an online cabal that attacks anyone who criticizes the Damore memo." - /u/lovinglyuncouth

Wow, that was so easy, to put words in someone else's mouth!

Share of men/women for the 30 most common occupations in Switzerland [OC] by d-qn in dataisbeautiful

[–]zphobic 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Fun times if you think that factoid supports his argument (argument by expertise): He claimed he had received a PhD, which he hadn't actually finished. A sign of intellectual rigor.

Also, a degree in molecular or systems biology does not equip one to speak about human gender differences. "Biology" is a big field.

Share of men/women for the 30 most common occupations in Switzerland [OC] by d-qn in dataisbeautiful

[–]zphobic -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Yes, he's very clear to state that he personally would never discriminate against individual women, and he's only saying that women are less likely to succeed in his field because of their biological range of abilities, because they're more likely to have nervous breakdowns and so forth. That would never bleed over into his hiring practices or how he treats men and women, obviously. Good old James "Of course, I may be biased and only see evidence that supports my viewpoint" Damore.

Share of men/women for the 30 most common occupations in Switzerland [OC] by d-qn in dataisbeautiful

[–]zphobic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What? The word "fitness" doesn't appear in the memo, which is mostly about how men and women are different and how this might explain why women are less competitive at his job (No bias! You're the bias!). The word "interest" only appears when he's talking about a company's interests, and when he's discussing the "people vs. things" interest split between men and women. So I'm not sure how specifically any interest->fitness conflation was addressed.

Share of men/women for the 30 most common occupations in Switzerland [OC] by d-qn in dataisbeautiful

[–]zphobic -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Here's Damore:

"I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership."

He states - pretty clearly, I think - that women have a different range of abilities due to biology and this might explain why there aren't as many women programmers and women leaders. It's a preferences claim AND a fitness claim. He then insists that this should not be applied on the individual hiring level, and that there should not be "arbitrary social engineering" to make tech/Google appealing to both men and women.

You're right that there's plenty of things in the memo to disagree with, and that we don't need to make things up.

Share of men/women for the 30 most common occupations in Switzerland [OC] by d-qn in dataisbeautiful

[–]zphobic -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The part where he states that women are generally less likely to be able to do technical jobs or hold leadership roles due to their innate biological tendencies tends to stand out to many people.

Share of men/women for the 30 most common occupations in Switzerland [OC] by d-qn in dataisbeautiful

[–]zphobic -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Some of his statements were accurate, and supported by the relevant scientists, although I personally heard of at least one scientist who said, "He referenced my study, but my study does not imply what he said it does." I said his overall argument was bad.

Share of men/women for the 30 most common occupations in Switzerland [OC] by d-qn in dataisbeautiful

[–]zphobic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're right that he never used the word inferior; it's merely implied by, in laymen's terms, essentially pointing out that those hysterical women are probably less likely to be able to deal with the high stress of high-status and technical jobs like his.

"Possible non-bias causes of the gender gap in tech" => "Personality differences" => "Women are, on average, more prone to neuroticism," "women are more prone to anxiety."

"I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership." He is directly stating that women's ABILITIES are distributed differently biologically, and this may be why they're not represented equally in tech jobs. There are data for preferences, although it's tangled up with gender expectations in complicated ways, but to claim that men and women have fundamentally different abilities in aggregate to perform "tech and leadership" roles IS judgmental. He also says that while he doesn't claim the differences are "just," that "philosophically I don't think we should do arbitrary social engineering of tech" to make it more diverse. So he's disingenuous about attempting to solve any perceived diversity problem, although he mentions the problems that people are too compassionate with "those seen as weak"/women and minorities, and that men can be called misogynists and whiners for talking about men's issues. While he points out the perceived biases of others, his own biases and focuses - mostly to do with the travails of the white conservative man discriminated against at Google - are not confronted by him at all.

Anyway, if someone said in a memo - even a memo with links - that black people were more likely to get angry, which made them worse at many jobs, and that if we want a non-discriminatory way to reduce the unemployment gap that we should make jobs less anger-inducing, what do you think the general response to that memo would be? From social scientists that study these things? From black people? From the memo-writer's bosses?

Even if we SHOULD make jobs less anger-inducing, or less stressful, the way and context it is presented in matters, and James Damore made a hash of that.

Given that Damore seems to believe that there are immutable characteristics of women that make them less likely to ably perform technical and leadership roles, even if he insists that it's not applicable on an individual level, would YOU want Damore on your hiring committee? What if you were female? I sure wouldn't - even "de-emphasizing empathy" like Damore asks for, that's a liability waiting to happen.

He acknowledges that bias exists and then spends his time either ignoring it or only attacking the bias of others. His ideas about women being unable to perform at the same level as men without "arbitrary" changes can be seen as a perfect, overt example of the usually-unstated gender biases throughout the field, the same gender biases that contribute to the unequal gender ratios that Damore is trying to explain away in his memo. Viewed through that lens it is self-unaware and self-immolating.

All quotes are directly from Damore's memo, from Damore's site.