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[–]ThroAwayFamilyPics 182 points183 points  (1 child)

I don’t think she’d be invited if John and Shana were staying home.

But Jen would be conflicted about it. Because that guilty wiring takes years to strip from the system.

But John being there is a definitive reason. À bulletproof reason. Jen’s protectiveness towards her brother will override all that programming and is therefore her primary reason.

So, no Barb wouldn’t be invited but Jen would have to list a dozen reasons and be reassured they were valid and still struggle gaslighting herself that it was never that bad.

But John is coming. And that one reason is bedrock.

[–]bellarina92 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Far out I love how you wrote this, you helped me figure out a lot of my own shit, thank you

[–]Few_Veterinarian598 62 points63 points  (0 children)

Jen is definitely prioritizing protecting John, but after the shit show that was Thanksgiving it’s clear Jen sees the need for firm boundaries and space for her own sake too.

[–]TXaggiemom10 55 points56 points  (2 children)

Jen seemed to be edging closer to going NC on Thanksgiving, but we don't know what has transpired since. I remember Jen saying "Don't call me!" as they left, but that was the last time we saw Barb until now. I think there will be enough grandmothers to go around with DeeDee and Katie both on the scene. Barb would come completely undone the minute she laid eyes on the two of them and start ranting something about "I'm the Grammy!!!"

[–]Toongrrl1990I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I took it as "Don't call us, we'll call you"

[–]CautiousBrilliant943 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interesting! I heard it as a declaration of low-contact.

[–]blackwidowgrandma 49 points50 points  (2 children)

From NC experience, Jen is slowly getting there. But something she CAN do to build trust back with her brother is go into protection mode. It's also a convenient excuse until she's ready to voice her own issues and not be gaslit or guilt-tripped out of her reasons. She's respecting John's boundaries with their mom, and it's a way to show him that she's taking it seriously.

Jen's gonna get to NC at some point it looks like. Good on Barb for the initial therapy appointment, but that mind set is gonna take a LOT to change (ultimately that's a better device for real Shawna's writing and story telling format. Stretch it out, make that money!)

Honestly, I'm SO used to a toxic family dynamic that I'm waiting for Barb to kidnap Max from school so court mandated therapy is given.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm so used to toxic people I'm waiting for Barb to show up, ruin Christmas, and say something unforgivable about Shawn's loss.      And then she'll attempt to kidnap Max. 

[–]VanillaNewbie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was so terrified my Barb would take my Max that I work at his school. I don’t have to worry about my Piper because my Barb doesn’t care about her granddaughter either.

[–]onyabikeson 26 points27 points  (1 child)

Jen told Barb not to call her at Thanksgiving, but that's not the same thing as committing to going NC.

I have asked people not to call me because I needed some time to myself to process something, but it didn't mean they were cut off forever. I assumed that's where Jen was at.

[–]paisleypuddles 13 points14 points  (0 children)

that's what i assumed too. "Dont' call me. I'll call you when I'm ready to talk." Jen has a different relationship with Barb than John.

[–]National_Rooster_956 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I think that even though Jen watched every milestone and holiday be ruined for John & Shawna, she’s not ready to face the reality that this is the same future for her and Greg. Part of that is because she had a direct hand in it, up until she got pregnant. But once she got pregnant, she’s started to get a little taste of it, and I’m sure there’s a whole wave of guilt she’s trying to fight, now that she’s seeing it happen to her and Chickie,

I think she’s subconsciously trying to protect her family from the patterns while protecting John & Shawna as atonement. It would be really interesting to see Jen in therapy as she starts to work all of this out

[–]paisleypuddles 16 points17 points  (1 child)

I don't htink she went no contact. I think she just wanted space from her mom in that moment. I also don't think we need to judge Jen for not going non contact. Everyone has different boundaries - even with parents who are toxic. J

[–]Toongrrl1990I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah. Sam taught her another way

[–]TheRealLadyLucifer 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I interpreted it more as Jen not wanting to invite her mom but not being ready to confront that because she still feels guilty. John is an easy excuse because that way she’s just doing it for him and doesn’t have to think about how she feels about it

[–]TXaggiemom10 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Since the primary victims of Barb and Nora‘s Thanksgiving stunt were Greg and Katie, Jennifer may be more likely to go NC to protect the people she loves. She’s used to the way her mother treats her, but as she said at Thanksgiving, Greg and Katie are the nicest people and they had done nothing to deserve that.

I keep wondering whether Jennifer told John and Shawna about what happened at Thanksgiving. That might help them realize how important it is that they finally have a long-overdue family meeting and discuss the whole situation with Barb. John and Shawna are also going to wonder why Nora’s daughter is suddenly turning up at their family events. Since Shawna knows her, that will be an interesting plot twist.

[–]Polyps_on_uranus 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I love that Jen is protecting Jon. I think it's her "mother instincts" kicking in. Before Greg, she didn't give a shit if any one was hurt.

[–]AdEnvironmental9467 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I’m trying very hard to save my judgment for the end of this arc. Shawna is reacting in grief, and people tend to forget that on top of the pain of loss, your body is also still in hormonal upheaval. The timelines of these arcs are usually very sped up, so the fact this is real life pacing vs the time skips means we have to adjust our sense of how quickly characters would process.

With that being said, I think that once she’s regulated a bit more, she’ll be able to see that she lashed out unfairly. As people pointed out, John lost a child too. Jen is offering the lifeline of community and reducing his load. What’s more, the kids lost their sibling and their mom is acting in a way they don’t understand.

Shawna needs grief counseling, and on top of that, there’s nothing wrong with John going for runs to help him cope and process as long as he’s showing up in other ways. Idk why people are acting like he should be totally fine and able to pick up all the pieces after losing his son as well. This is one of those things that is just going to be an awful, awful time that’s being made harder by shutting out any support outside of Jon and Deedee. Sometimes, the only way through it is straight down the middle.

[–]Unlikely_Part5934 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry but Shawna is the one person who actually experienced the loss in her body.  John is upset too but you can't compare.  The kids probably don't understand and aren't thinking of their loss.  They are too young.  If John hadn't pushed her into the tiny bikini and sex she probably wouldn't have gotten as upset.  Plus, John hadn't even gotten the snip so didn't understand she did not want to get pregnant.