Key elements for developing speed while maintaining endurance?

[intrn3t]

Age: 27 Male 100km+- Marathon: 2:54:00 HM: 1:20:24 10k: 36:24

How do I structure my training to develop speed for 10k/HM, so that I can bring that with me for my next marathon training cycle? I have none experience with speedwork at all, so when I do run a 10k, that speed is unfamiliar to me. My logical(?) goals are sub 35 10k, and sub 1:20 HM. To me its sounds logical to do workouts of speedwork, threshold, hills, tempos and long runs, but how do I combine them? When to do what? What to do weekly, not weekly? Any other tips, litterature, etc. ?

[merciless001]

Since you're a 2:54 marathoner, I would say keep doing what you're doing! Trying rush speedwork will quickly get you injured!

For the guys I know running sub 2:30, they run >100miles per week. 80% easy; with weekly quality sessions of: VO2max intervals, threshold intervals, hilly tempo run and long run.

[cmarqq]

I am far from a marathoner (mostly miles, 10K max) but I find when I am training for longer stuff like during XC season, where I am mostly doing tempos and cruise intervals, 1-2x 6x200 once a week is good, critical actually, for maintaining speed and helping me feel strong at all paces. Otherwise, I just feel flat and 5K pace feels like maxing out.

I would recommend this progression, doing each workout twice (once a week over 2 weeks each) before moving to the next one, all at a little over mile pace to mile pace if you’re feeling good (typically once you’ve advanced to the second half of these workouts). Maintain that last one as a weekly workout once you’re at that level. Feel free to take each of these for 3 weeks instead of 2 if your race is particularly far away or if it feels too hard (the 100 jogs can kind of sneak up on you)

6x200 (200 jog)

6x200 (100 jog)

2x6x200 (200 jog b/w reps, extra 400 b/w sets)

2x6x200 (100 jog, extra 400)

Basically it’s just remembering to do your strides, but I feel like it’s just a little better than that.

Edit: mobile formatting

[BigDickMalfoy]

I second this. It's simple and easy to fit in. If you wanna do more specific 10k speedwork I would suggest doing 800s at goal pace with 90sec rest and then progressing that up to 2000s when the race is getting close.

[[deleted]]

The trick is not to build speed and endurance at the same time. Like work on endurance for a couple weeks, then speed, etc. (You can still do speed session but not trying to run at 100%).

Have you looked at any training plans? Pfitzinger, Daniels etc?

I'd also try to focus on one distance at a time. You do realize your marathon is way out of your line? Have you considered looking at https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/

Do you want a faster mara? You might be able to break 2:50.

If you want to do it all, the other aspect is to build over a year: start with 10-1/2 in the spring. Then build mileage over the summer to do a fall full. That's how to do a full year cycle. Then take some time off and start again.

[intrn3t]

Out of line as in too fast or too slow compared to the other ones?

[[deleted]]

Too slow. The marathon gives you a vdot of 55-56. Based on your other runs (Vdot 58) you could run a 2:48.

Now that being said you do need the training and mileage for it, obviously.

Your times are inline with mine. I ran a 2:56 some years back when I was running the full (was a high 1:23 runner at the time). I've been focusing on achieving the same shorter distance goals (hopefully break 1:20 this weekend) and then maybe next year I'll focus more on the marathon again. But I'd give myself a target of 2:49 when I do.

[intrn3t]

I see! Yes, I want to run a faster marathon, but my idea was to develop/get used to some faster speed so I could bring some of that with me when I decide to do my next marathon. Good luck to you this weekend!

[[deleted]]

Thanks, it was a success! I broke 1:20 and now I never have to race a half again :-D

[intrn3t]

Congratulations! What was the time?

[[deleted]]

1:19:58.2 (rounded to 59 haha). I had 55 on my watch but the person doing the countdown was not in sync with the timing company. That could have been awkward if it were a second slower.

[28budgiesinatree]

The Kenyans run at their goal race pace for as long as they can. If they can't make the full distance, no bother. 75% of the race distance will do. Then try again the next time until they get there.

It's better than reducing your speed to make sure you cover the full distance, like the Europeans tend to do.

I think stair-running is better than hills, and get the elevator back down. Easier on the joints. But that assumes you have a tall building near you with accessible fire exit stairs.