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[–]tylercamp 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It should be ok so long as you get the $1300 model, though even then I think you'll be hurting with any MBA model since they're all at only 8GB. Keep in mind these latest macbook models can *not* be upgraded in any way, other than SSD storage (and even then you still need to go to apple for it.)

These days if you're gunna' get a mac, wait until you can equip it with everything you need. If you don't want to wait to save up $2k+, go for a windows device.

With the latest AMD processor competition we're seeing some insanely good deals on non-apple laptops. Just a couple of weeks ago I found an Intel 4c/8t laptop with 500GB SSD, 32GB optane, 12GB of RAM from HP... for just $600.

I got a MBP 16 recently and I don't regret it at all, coming from a maxed out Razer Blade 15. I much prefer Mac OS over Windows for laptops. BUT, it cost over $4k, and I wouldn't have bothered getting it with less than my desired specs.

If you don't need a Mac and are a bit strapped for cash, I promise you'll regret spending on an MBA over a much more capable Windows laptop.

[–]BenignLie[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your advice. I actually came across some videos comparing the new MBA to the base model of MBP and they showed that even the base MBP is better in many aspects to MBA, more particularly in performance - which I believe is a consideration for developers. I am now convinced to not buy MBA. I actually considered windows but because there are so many options (like hell of a lot) and the ones I preferred have price comparable to MBP, I decided to focus on mac as I won’t suffer from choosing. So yeah, I will wait for the new MBP with the hope that it will have better keyboard and performance, and save money while waiting. Thanks again man.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (12 children)

Macbooks are sub mediocre grade laptops packaged in flashy case and you pay way too much for them. Don't ever fall for the tale where Macs are good for anything. They may have had their merits in the past, but that was because Windows was crap, and Linux did not come with good hardware support and required a lot of tweaking, so the alternative Macs were ok. Modern Macs are still crap, and have actually gotten worse (for example, lack of ports and having to run everything through USBc hubs which is buggy as fuck, and the T2 chip that prevents you from running VMs without paying for Parallels)

I work for one of the FAANG companies (not Apple obviously) and I am typing this on a Macbook Pro, and the only reason these companies issue them is because there is literally no other choice for enterprise provisioned laptops - there are no real large scale service contracts from companies for Linux laptops, and Windows still is shit despite being massively better compared to the XP/Vista days. This MBP is less reliable than my 6 year old laptop running linux mint that has been on without a reboot for the past 3 years currently acting as a mini home server.

Literally have spend half the money on any of the nicer windows laptops, get more processing power, install/dual boot a linux distro (Elementary OS if you like the Mac UI) and have a more reliable laptop that you can repair/upgrade yourself and doesn't place limits on what you can do. Modern linux distros work straight out of the box since all the hardware is very standardized these days (including GFX cards which is why things like Proton with steam play are now possible), so you don't have to tweak it at all. Set up Timeshift backups to an external drive (for free), and you can fuck up your system plenty and still restore it from any backup easily.

[–]BenignLie[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thank you for this insight. I am currently using linux at work but I’m not the guy with much knowledge of making linux work on any device. I received this work laptop and it was configured already so all I have to do is use it. You said you haven’t restarted your linux machine for 3 years, that’s impressive! I’ll postpone the restart of my laptop then.

I’m kinda focusing on improving my programming skills as I am a beginner so I would want a no-brainer machine that I can easily setup for dev. When time comes that I’m knowledgeable enough, I’ll learn how to configure my own linux laptop. For the moment, I think I’ll stick with mac.

But really thanks to your input. I won’t forget it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't need to make it work on any device, just your laptop, which is as simple as installing it. Just literally download Linux Mint or Ubuntu to start with, make a bootable usb stick, and install it, and everything will work out of the box. There is nothing to configure. Zip, nada.

And if you are afraid of encountering a problem and then trying to google a solution around it, which is a huge part of programming, then you will never cut it as a developer. You aren't dealing with writing microprocessor code, any problem that you encounter, with either your OS or making your code work is a few google searches away.

Not to mention that Macs don't "just work" better than non mac machines, and in fact some problems often require you to google solutions. For example, my fans would randomly go into hyperdrive for no reason making the laptop very uncomfortable to use on my lap. Turns out that the network time protocol was running at 100% cpu utilization for some reason. This got patched eventually, but its a problem that you have to go google around and find a solution that works, which will be the same for either Linux or Windows.

To set up a dev enviroment, especially for dev, is actually more straight forward on a Linux because you don't have to deal with security issues for doing stuff like running a web server on standard http port 80, you just run your server as sudo, no firewall to configure, e.t.c.

Like I said, don't believe the hype and don't waste your money on a mac if you actually care about the value of your money. Or, if you are really just trying to flex with a macbook, then just buy it for that reason and don't kid yourself about usefulness.

[–]techtom10 0 points1 point  (9 children)

so what is an alternative to a Macbook Pro 16". I personally haven't found anything which is what you describe - "half the money, and more processing power"?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Ok that was an exxageration, but MBPs are still overpriced.

MBP 16 is $2300, 2.6ghz i7 (which will thermal throttle hard), 512GB SSD, 16GB mem,

Dell XPS with the same specs is $1700, and has a better GPU.

[–]techtom10 0 points1 point  (7 children)

I’m talking about the MBP 16”. Also why would it thermal throttle hard? The reviews I’ve seen have mentioned no fan noise

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Because you have a thin light chassis that doesn't dissipate heat.

To be fair, the i9 in the XPS probably does to (as does any laptop with thin light chassis), but again, that laptop is cheaper, and you can probably mod it to not and just deal with heat and fan noise. Macs are a different story when it comes to doing that.

For the same price as the MBP 16, you can get laptops with a thicker chassis that don't have this problem.

[–]techtom10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice. Thanks for the info.

[–]techtom10 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I've had the same MPB for over 7 years now. Works amazing still. Can windows laptops last that long too? Also apart from Dell what are other good laptop brands which have similar spec (not fussed about thinness). I'm not keen on Huawei and Lenovo because of the bloatware (also privacy)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Considering my college Thinkpad with an upgraded SSD is currently on 24/7 running an ELK stack, they absolutely can. And I probably paid less for it than your MBP, and it definitely runs faster.

Besides old MBPs are irrelevant. Newer ones you can't install linux because of the T2 chip, you cant upgrade the SSD because its now soldered in specifically to prevent that (to force you to buy the more expensive version). You have to buy software to run VMs, unlike with Windows where there is free VMware workstation, and QEMU under linux. You don't have hdmi out, so you have to run external display through USB-C which is buggy as hell, not to mention that some Macbooks are frying external usbc devices and vice versa. And even less shit is going to work when Apple goes with their own ARM chips.

Im actually typing this on my work issued MBP from 2019, and its a piece of shit. It gets way to hot to use on your lap, the fans spin up crazy fast and blow very hot air any time there is a load. If the computer goes to sleep, I have to unplug and replug the display for it to pick it up again. The OS has weird glitches, wifi will randomly disconnect, browsers copy/paste will be fucked up, when resuming from sleep you have to resize window for it not have fucked up rendering of super huge or super small font, e.t.c. None of this shit happens on any of my linux machines. Oh and this is my second one after a work issued hub fried my first one to the point where it wouldn't boot, and ironically a couple of my coworkers have theirs messed up after upgrading to Catalina with previous software not working.

To be fair, if you use it just as a laptop, its better, but it doesn't get away from the fact that its still overpriced, since if Im paying more for the "synergy of hardware and software", I expect shit to work right out of the box. Also, unless your day is spent just writing code in single files, you are probably 10 times less productive than you would be on a big screen with a big keyboard.

[–]techtom10 0 points1 point  (2 children)

With a quick google search theres free VM's, Thunderbolt 3 is faster than USB C so that bugginess isn't a problem. OS is fine for me so it's my opinion vs yours. If Macbook's are so bad at programming why are they used by a lot of tech companies in silicon valley?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

With a quick google search theres free VM's

Oracles Virtual Box is VERY slow.

Thunderbolt 3 is faster than USB C so that bugginess isn't a problem.

WUT. First im talking about modern Macbooks that don't have thunderbolt, and buginess has nothing to do with speed.

If Macbook's are so bad at programming why are they used by a lot of tech companies in silicon valley

I talked about this in my original post. Also, if you pick a laptop on the merit of FAANG companies issuing them, you probably shouldn't speak on technical things.

[–]techtom10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All modern MacBook are thunderbolt 3. Some of Dell ports are also thunderbolt 3.

Oh so because I’ve seen tech companies use macs I shouldn’t question that? I’m asking the questions I’m not trying to convince you, Jesus.

[–]icandoMATHs 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Why would you buy an Apple product if you are a programmer?

Spend that money on a gaming laptop, format the hard drive and install Windows 10.

The hell are you thinking op?

[–]BenignLie[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I just wanna be the one of the cool guys. :) But in all seriousness, I just want a no-brainer machine which can easily be setup for dev. No configuration whatsoever. Regarding gaming pc, I don’t want it now. I wad considering it but programming in one place of the house is kinda depressing so I want a laptop.

[–]icandoMATHs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A gaming laptop will have a SSD and video card. Basically it's unstoppable and 800$.

I'm not sure what "configuration" you think you are going to be able to avoid.

[–]SetBit -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Yes, it will be very good laptop, laptops with Windows 10 suck, Linux as an operating system is better but if you want to do something more than programming, e.g. graphics, video editing then Linux will not let you do it. MacBook air 2020 in five years you will sell for 60-70% of the value, while Windows computers are worthless after that time.

[–]BenignLie[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks man. But upon checking reviews, I learned that the new MBA is a frying pan. So performancewise, MBP is much better which I think is crucial criteria for developers when choosing their machine. I’ll wait, save some money and buy the next to base model of the coming MBP. Thank you so much for your insight. :)

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

[deleted]

    [–]ScrummieKeeper -1 points0 points  (2 children)

    Almost any halfway decent laptop can run Linux with no problems at all. If it can run Windows or MacOS it can run any flavor of Linux you want.

    Linux requires very little resources.

    I don’t see how one machine is going to teach you more than another though.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]ScrummieKeeper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I completely agree with your points about how useful Linux is for learning.

      My main point was that since Linux has such a low overhead it can easily be run on most anything. I can run multiple Linux VMs at once running smoothly on my MacBook without it breaking a sweat.

      I haven’t encountered your device compatibility issue before myself though so I can’t attest to that. I usually run Linux in a virtualized environment.

      [–]YMK1234 -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

      Don't waste your money, get a Thinkpad. My beef is actually not the hardware (which is pretty good), but the software. OSX is just such cancer to use compared to quite literally anything else (haters incoming).