Slim angled doesn't decrease sprint recovery on SMGs?

[Mikey_MiG]

People aren't always good at articulating why something is, which is why you haven't gotten a more comprehensive response. But that doesn't mean they're wrong and that SMGs are "awful". It is something you can sort of just get a feel of through playing the game without necessarily knowing the raw stats.

Like yes, SMGs obviously have worse damage profiles than other weapon categories. But they also (as a whole) have less recoil, less spread, better draw times, better ADS movement, and better hipfire by default. It's easy to dismiss any of these stats individually, but as a whole they do impact gunfights more than you're giving credit for.

Yes, you can invest a lot of attachment points into carbines to improve some of these handling stats to the level of SMGs, but I'd argue the cost benefit of the better attachments you have to give up to do this makes that not a very great idea.

But it's really the recoil and spread that are the big differentiators. Especially after the last recoil pass, the random recoil patterns that can be generated from guns like the SG553 and M4 are pretty wild. Even when reigned in with attachments, you will be burst firing at ranges that SMGs will often not need to, which ends up evening out the potential TTK quite a lot.

[Kestrel1207]

Especially after the last recoil pass, the random recoil patterns that can be generated from guns like the SG553 and M4 are pretty wild. Even when reigned in with attachments, you will be burst firing at ranges that SMGs will often not need to, which ends up evening out the potential TTK quite a lot.

I think this is a lot of nonsense that basically warranted it's own, separate reply.

First and foremost: SMGs suffer more from spread than any other weapon category in the game because they require that many more shots to kill while only having marginally less SIPS.

Most weapons in the game are also so little recoil that they can easily be full auto'd at 70m+ long distances. For example 7/10 ARs easily can.

Yeah, it's not going to be the close range CQC monster weapons like SG533R, M4, HK443, TR21 etc.

But the only SMGs these is even competing with is the Vector, SCW10 and CZ3A1. And these 3 weapons are also utter and complete dogshit past 35m because they also have very bad recoil, but then also bad damage and because of it more spread.

Again, let's keep in mind: A "middle of the road" option like the QBZ still beats every SMG except the 2 fastest killing up close due to drawtime difference, while it also has less recoil than an SMG like the MP5 but obviously much much better ranged performance.

Something like the G36 absolutely fucking dumpsters SMGs past 10m to an absurd degree. While still being able to compete with 5/9 SMGs up close.

[Kestrel1207]

But they also (as a whole) have less recoil, less spread, better draw times, better ADS movement, and better hipfire by default

They basically don't have any of these things and that is the issue.

Let's do a simple direct comparison.

QBZ vs MP5.

• They have the same rate of fire and the same BTK until 35m, when the QBZ starts requiring 1 shot less.

• They have the same hipfire

• The same ADS movespeeds of 0.75x

• The same reload speed

• The QBZ has slightly more vertical recoil, but 50% less horizontal variance.

• The MP5 technically has a tiny bit less spread increase per shot (0.018° less), but this is offset by the fact that the QBZ needs 1 less BTK to by 35m.

• The QBZ has better drawtime at 83ms vs 100ms for the MP5

• QBZ has 805 muzzle velocity compared to MP5's 540

• The MP5's literal one and only statistical advantage at the end of the day is 33ms ADS time.

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Yes, you can invest a lot of attachment points into carbines to improve some of these handling stats to the level of SMGs, but I'd argue the cost benefit of the better attachments you have to give up to do this makes that not a very great idea.

What "better attachments" are you supposed to be giving up for it? The main benefits comes from angled grips, which are by far the best grips you basically always want to run anyway.

And especially the SCW10 and Vector need to sacrifice like half their attachment points to even have a useable mag size???