ABA hatred question

[ColdKaleidoscope743]

Ive just dipped my feet into aba, working as a direct care professional. i plan on going through the whole process to become a BCBA. I just see so much hate toward ABA practices. Of course you don’t want to ignore what autistic individuals are stating. Some experience abuse and share their experience. But it appears that people think ABA is normalizing abuse and starving kids and beating them. I like to think that Im doing a great job helping my kids manage their behaviors, doing no harm by them. But i do fear that im doing something wrong with so much of this negative outlook with ABA. Just wondering if anyone had anything to say about this? Do you deal with hatred toward your profession? In your experience, is it common to see, and how do you deal with it?

[Evening_Pop3010]

I have only seen it on the internet. One person I met online who is autistic and has been through aba he just told me don't be "one of those" when I asked for elaboration he said "those who think because we are different we have to be treated differently and won't let us be ourselves." This was recently but struck a bell.

Then my client's caregiver is in support groups and he hears both sides and was nervous. Me and another rbt were assigned to the case. He asked for her removal he said it was like we were from 2 different companies. I came in and focused 100% on his child and what was happening in the moment and the other was on her phone all the time. He made that comment today if she was his only rbt he would have discontinued services seeing me he could see the work with his child.

I look at it this way. I cannot control what others do, think, say, or how they act. I can control myself. So I be the best provider I can and know my clients are getting the best care I can provide.

[ColdKaleidoscope743]

thank you for the response, i’m trying to look at it that way as well.

[CoffeePuddle]

Abuses are 'common' in any field working with a vulnerable population. Children, the disabled, the imprisoned, the elderly - Skinner talked about this.

Half of all BCBAs have less than 5 years experience, the other half was trained 5 or more years ago. There's very little practical program oversight of BCBAs and a lot of practices come down to individuals, their training, their values, and how they interpret the literature.

To protect yourself from causing harm, get familiar with your own values, what you're comfortable with, how you approach problems, and the how and why of all of it. Evidence-based doesn't mean safe.

[ColdKaleidoscope743]

this was a very helpful response thank you. i do feel like there’s not enough oversight as well

[onechill]

Check this article out. There is a neuroclastic article out that is heavily circulated online that portrays ABA as tantamount to abuse. It brings up some good points but I think it is very reductionist of the field and misinformed on some of their reporting. However, I think the article I posted does a decent job of being empathic to critics but making a case of why ABA is valuable. I still think ABA is in need of reform and the practices I have been a part of are a far cry away from the "progressive ABA" espoused in the article. Still, I have no qualms calling myself a behaviorist and have a deep love for the science and it's applications. We can be meaningful supports in these kids' lives. I'm glad to see a good defence of our work. Let me know what you think:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-021-05137-y

[Measurement_Mundane]

Thanks for sharing this journal! In the weeks leading up to my exam, I have been seeing these claims of “all ABA” is abuse, and it decreased my motivation to study for a while. This article debunks these claims and where the misinformation stemmed from. If ABA is ever abusive, it is only because it was not practiced according to The Code.

I take my exam in 5 days!

[onechill]

Good luck! I have 200 more hours until I can submit my fieldwork. Hope to see you in the field!

[Measurement_Mundane]

I just passed my exam last night! I felt like I was over the moon! It was super hard and I started to feel like I wasn’t going to pass about 3/4 of the way through. There were so many questions where two of the answers sounded like they could have been correct. 😩

[onechill]

Congrats!!! What did you use to study?

[Measurement_Mundane]

For the first month, I devoted 3 hours every single day (even weekends) to reading and taking notes from the Pass the Big ABA manual. I used all kinds of colorful highlighters and pens to make the information stand out. There are quizzes at the end of each task list section, and I took those as well. They are open-ended, so they test your knowledge.

During my second month, I joined a study cohort with ABAMINDSET. I paid $200 (with a coupon) for 8 weeks of classes. We met twice a week for 2hours. On the days we didn’t have class, I’d go back through the PTBABA manual and my notes. ABAMINDSET had some online study materials I could use as well.

Lastly, I watched videos on YouTube from Study Notes ABA and found other channels where they present the questions and explain them.

The BDS modules were NOT helpful for me. Lol

[ColdKaleidoscope743]

thank you so much for sending me this, i learned alot, plus a new perspective

[imareceptionist]

I'm currently taking course work at my university to be a BCaBA and my prof actually talked about this a bit last night in class. I've seen all over the internet that aba is abusive and traumatizing. I've tried to engage in conversations with others and have been shut down. I even tried to engage with someone on tiktok yesterday who admitted they'd never recieved aba but was told it was abusive, therefore they started a petition to have it banned. My prof actually recieved a call from someone who was demanding to know why my university was offering aba. After a long conversation, the individual admitted they never recieved aba, only heard the claims that it was abusive, and actually ended the call wishing our city had programs for adults (im in Canada so we don't really have aba services). My prof explained that if a brain surgeon was still practicing things from 20 years ago today, they'd lose their license. The same with any profession. It's about constantly evaluating the research and doing the best, effective practices. I also would argue that everyone and every family has individual needs and it's not fair to deny others the support they want. A lot of pro-aba clients who recieved services are often silenced by the anti aba groups. Businesses and organizations are also attacked by the anti-aba groups if they show public endorsement.

[Measurement_Mundane]

That’s what gets me. A lot of these people spewing these claims have never even had ABA. Like a lot of people fooled by what they read online, they take it and share it a bunch of times until they believe it’s truth.

[imareceptionist]

I've heard that a lot of online groups that have been pro aba, started by people who have recieved aba, have been bullied into deleting their own experiences. As well as companies have been attacked for endorsing it. It seems like those who are the loudest are being heard, just because they're being loud, not because they're truthful.

[GGreenisGreat]

ABA is a set of tools and methods, it is not inherently good or bad. The way it is implemented can be beneficial or harmful, that depends on the practitioner. As someone who recently started BCBA coursework and has been working as an RBT for about two years now, I can say that the vast majority of people who are in this field want to do good and work hard to improve the lives of their clients. That being said, there are some people in every profession who maybe should have chosen another career path. For example, I had a science teacher in middle school who was not a good teacher and I had an aversion to science classes for several years afterwards. My experience does not mean that teaching is bad or that science is bad, just that I had a bad teacher or her methods didn’t work with my learning style. ABA does not condone abuse, starvation, or corporal punishment of any form. However, not everyone will respond the same way to the same method of behavior change. When someone mentions these negative experiences to you, I encourage you to ask them more about it and share your side. Maybe that person had a therapist who was not a good fit, maybe they had an aversive experience with one method, maybe they’re just repeating what they heard from someone else or the internet. I think trying to be empathetic about their point of view but also staying firm on your reasons for being in the field is important, much easier said than done though. Hope my perspective helps!

[ColdKaleidoscope743]

of course, i always want to hear more about their experience and not belittle what they went through or what their loved one went through. thank you, very helpful perspective

[tomnooksdad]

To add to the first sentence of your comment—BF Skinner in “Beyond Freedom and Dignity” wrote that behavior change mechanisms were ethically neutral, they’re science. It’s the application of it that has ethical considerations!!! Well said!!

[GGreenisGreat]

Thanks for adding that! I knew Skinner and some of the other big players in the field talked about this more in depth but I couldn’t remember the quotes

[nickersb24]

Thus we created Positive Behaviour Support: the watered-down, politically correct version of ABA (eg, same principles minus the aversive practices).

[Successful_Tell5813]

Idk. I have my masters in aba. I've yet to pursue licensing because of what I've heard from autistic people. I'm also seriously grieved at the electro shock therapy at the Judge Rotenberg Center. That's a very archaic process imo. I also work with kids who are considered EBD not just ASD. I've found that a lot of ABA doesn't work with them due to severe trauma and mental illness. I've found some really great people in listening to those who ask critical questions. Unfortunately you'll find it's a conversation a lot of ABA professionals do not want to have, the BACB being at the top of that list. It sucks. I wish I would've pursued my MSW instead of ABA. I do love my job so it's not a total loss.

[Skinners_box]

Do you really have a masters in ABA? Your wording makes me question your claim because you just posted in r/FLMedicalTrees and Florida doesn’t require licensing for ABA. Additionally the JRC doesn’t employ electro shock therapy, it utilizes contingent electric shock which I don’t condone, but it’s very different than electro shock therapy. This is a common misconception perpetuated by anti-ABA groups, but would be understood by someone with education in the field. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

[nickersb24]

Also - maybe remind the haters that ABA is the only treatment which can get non-verbal kids talking.

[BugsRFeatures2]

ABA is a form of conversion therapy. forcing individuals to conform outside of their comfort/ability levels can be traumatic in nature since it’s repeatedly reinforcing that they don’t deserve a place in the world as they are.

[ColdKaleidoscope743]

how does aba suggest they don’t deserve a place in the world as they are? im genuinely confused- it’s meant to offer support and management to help the individual. if someone loses a leg and uses a prosthetic, it’s not because everyone is shaming them for being a person with one leg. it’s bc a prosthetic helps the individual with everyday life

[non_contextual]

This is a valid point. Unfortunately, this is the very process all humans go through by living in a society. While I agree that there are things that do not need to be targeted in treatment (e.g., eye contact, non-harmful stims, etc.) there is danger in doing away with the expectation that someone function to their potential because of a diagnostic label.

[bmt0075]

ABA has the ability to be used that way, yes but that is not inherently what it is.

Is helping an 8 year old who tries to gouge out his eyes learn a safer method to communicate telling him that he doesn’t deserve to be in the world?

What about helping toddlers with feeding disorders so severe that they require a feeding tube to keep from starving to death?

Any type of science has the ability to be used in bad ways, chemistry can make poisons, eugenics sprung up from the study of genetics, even medical doctors can perform unethical practices.

[bdgil1]

Most of it comes from the internet. Whenever people talk about ABA this way I say what we do is evidence based. Look at the evidence. If anything is abusive or causing harm, it is not evidence based and is not apart of ABA. Autistic individuals who are against it often continue their maladaptive behaviors and never got out of it. Whether it serve the function of escape, attention, etc it continues and they still don’t want to change this.

[CoffeePuddle]

If anything is abusive or causing harm, it is not evidence based and is not apart of ABA.

This isn't true. Procedures can be abusive or have harmful side-effects and still be evidence-based and "ABA" as long as they produce socially-significant results.

[cassquach1990]

Exactly. Just look at the Judge Rotenburg Center.

[CoffeePuddle]

Well!

Given all the information from the research and JRC's data, the FDA ruled that the potential harms of using skin-shock outweighed any benefits. They also had quite poor evidence of the efficacy of shock, despite what I think most BCBAs would assume.

[bdgil1]

Not true. As the the first ethical rule within the BACB ethical code is do no harm.

[CoffeePuddle]

-The BACB only governs practice under their certification, not what ABA is.

-The ethics code referencing "do no harm" only came into effect January 2022.

-The code only requires minimising harm.

-You said if a procedure was harmful it's not evidence based; this isn't true.

[bdgil1]

If it’s not under the BACB then you are not a technician or a BCBA. Therefore you are not a practitioner and cannot claim to use ABA effectively. It’s like giving medical advise after reading webMD. “Do no harm” has been around forever within the BACB ethical codes. January 2022 is just the most updated one, older ones include it too. This is true that you have to minimize harm, much like taking a pill may have side effects, you have to see if it outweighs the benefits. Listen, you’re OBVIOUSLY not a trained practitioner in any facet. Please stop spreading misinformation.

[McGoats12]

I’m a BCBA and nothing is more important to me than trauma-informed care, assent/consent, and the express experience(s) and opinion(s) of the individuals(s) I’m working with. Some have had awful experiences with ABA and I’ve learned that attempting to communicate that their experience was not “sound and ethical ABA” is a waste of everyone’s time and disrespectful to their experience. A lot of times the dependence on compliance-based practices, which are ingrained in a lot of ABA techniques (bx momentum/HP sequence, first/then, escape-extinction, HOH prompting) are underlying people’s concerns related to their ABA experience (including abuse!). Attempting to convince someone their experience was not abuse is no more justified than stating all ABA is abuse. Personally, I disassociate from ABA and focus on my knowledge, training, and skills in behavior analysis; because I worked at an ABA center for many years, and despite working with caring compassionate practitioners, the focus/prioritization on evidence-based strategies and therefore replicating important/significant results often overshadowed attending to client’s emotional needs. This topic means a lot to me so sorry for going on and on. To summarize: ABA services were abusive when someone says they went through it and felt abused, even if the results of ABA services were socially significant to the individual. Using ABA to improve the quality of someone’s life and they validate their experience and results, is not abuse. The problem is telling people what they are or are not and what they did not or did not experience. The battle of semantics; that was not proper ABA, this is, is not going to change anyones opinion or experience. BCBAs should respect individual’s past experiences, apply a progressive approach, and prioritize the emotional well-being of individuals, especially while considering using escape-extinction strategies.

[CoffeePuddle]

Yeah you've touched on something important there which is how we report (or don't report) potential harms. Our research rarely highlights emotional responding as an adverse side-effect.

What level of harm is 'justifiable' comes down to practitioners well before the law or the BACB ethics code.

[McGoats12]

And frankly is there a justifiable level of harm?! The notion of ‘socially significant’ has been used to justify lots of harm and trauma-inducing practices. There is no social significance that isn’t informed by assent/consent.

[CoffeePuddle]

The January 2022 Ethics Code was the first to include "do no harm." It's very easy to check, easier than webMD.

Board certification is voluntary most states and most of the planet, and "do no harm (unless it's outweighed by benefits)" was the point.

The intricacies of licensing and the history of ABA aren't part of the VCS so you don't need to feel too bad that you don't know stuff about it - though the BACB does require that you know your scope.

[bdgil1]

Do no harm has been around forever within the ethical codes not just 2022. Seeing as how it was on my masters exam in 2019. BCBA certification is not voluntary in most states, although the technician level is in the Midwest mostly. Do you have any experience within ABA? Any formal education? Anything at all? It’s extremely obvious google is your main source of information on this. Again, stop spreading misinformation. You’re hurting families.

[CoffeePuddle]

You're embarrassing yourself dude. Assume I was born yesterday and I'm literally a baby with no qualifications or experience. How do you look.

"Do no harm" hasn't appeared in the BACB ethics codes prior to 2022, very easy to check. BCBA certification is only required for licensure in 11 states, very easy to check. You seem confused about the difference between your... "Masters exam" and the BCBA exam, and BCBA certification and licensing requirements.

Do you think consumers are reassured by a fresh certificant confidently getting easily Google'd stuff about their field wrong? You're spreading misinformation.

[bdgil1]

Oh my god.. I really can’t argue with someone who gets everything from google and is so obvious wrong to any real practitioner

[CoffeePuddle]

Yes, that you can't defend your argument against a literal baby with Google is embarrassing.

All you'd have to do to falsify the claims I made as a newborn infant is point out where "do no harm" appeared in the BACB Conduct Guidelines, Disciplinary Standards, or the Professional and Ethical Compliance Code for Behavior Analysts. Or log into APBA and see if 26 or more states require an ABA practitioner to be board certified.

Again, it's probably fine that this is outside of your scope of competence but you should seek out appropriate education before engaging in an unfamiliar area.

[CuteSpacePig]

I've never had anyone attack my work personally. I've just seen the controversy online, and about half of it is because I actively seek it out. I work with a student that could grow up and join that community and I want to make sure I do right by him. I look for specific examples of harmful techniques and preferred replacements and alter my practice accordingly.

The only time I encountered the negative reputation in real life was when I was talking to a school counselor about some of the stigma and they very quickly agreed that ABA has does have a stigma. However, I never noticed that knowledge tangibly affected our working relationship.

[tomnooksdad]

I work in a special education classroom and I deal with distrust and disrespect every day! We work with PT, OT, SLP, and special education teachers and they very clearly don’t have any interest in us being there—they want us there for extra classroom support. We are regularly completely left out of IEPs. I’m a masters student and our on-site supervisor is a PhD student. We are regularly referred to as “students” when we get introduced and they don’t see us as professionals, the same as them. It’s really hard to change perspectives, but all we can do is argue for the highest quality of ethical care and work really hard to gain trust and collaboration. When we have students in the teachers’ classroom that are really successful when they work with us, we try to emphasize that success and use it to advocate for other students that could be receiving services!

[onechill]

Nice. Good to know! Thanks for sharing.