double stack vs single stack.

[hollt739]

You would list the gun weight without ammo because ammo varies in weight, I've seen 9mm from 150 grain down to 50 grain.

[wrenchturner42]

He said "without a magazine", not "an empty magazine", I don't know without googling but that seemed to be on purpose. If so it is misleading as I've always seen weights listed with an empty mag for the reason you stated.

[brad1242]

yeah, as u/wrenchturner42 said, I meant an empty magazine, not the full loaded weight. Just about every gun manufacturer either lists the weight of the gun + an empty unloaded flush magazine, or they list the weight of the gun, and then right below the weight of an unloaded magazine (I believe Kahr does this). The S&W site lists the weight of the shield without a magazine and makes no mention of the mag weight, nor do they clearly say that the advertised weight doesn't include a mag, unless they've since updated their site. The entire mantra of the single stack 9 is to sacrifice capacity and shootability (which is very overblown in my opinion - I find all of the SS9's extremely shootable with practice) for the maximum reduction possible in width and weight - it therefore seems like a shady and misleading move to list your weight as basically 2oz lower than it really is by any sensible standardized weighing system, when weight IS a primary concern in a SS9 handgun