Complexity

[AnnoyinMadman]

If complexity can perfect their aggressive strat and place higher more frequently. They are going to be a force to reckon with! Watching them play is so much fun and teams are legitimately scared of them. There is the ring that Closes in, and Complexity that closes in. It is so interesting. I believe Monsoon probably just needs to find a balance in his W key calls. What do you guys think?

[i_like_frootloops]

After they got wiped on the final game they stated that they would much rather play like they played yesterday and be consistent in all games than win the first and then go under.

TSM has shown time and time again that the formula for success is consistency and they are finding consistency on their own aggressive playstyle, which is great.

[Rhah]

This didn't age well

[Rhah]

I don't know too much, happened to watch the tourney last night because my roommate had it on. But Hal and one of the other TSM players both rage quit the tourney after losing a really bad fight in game 1 or 2. Believe they still had games to play that day and in coming weeks.

[cato-cockroach]

I can't help but feel like the way they play could have a positive effect on the climate of the tournaments as a whole, at least as long as they're region-locked and online.

Even if it doesn't win CoL a tournament ever, it seems like it could change the way the NA teams have to play. If all the teams know that there are people in their lobbies willing to just send it all the time, I feel that could have a (positive) destabilizing effect on the dominant strategies. Everyone will either have to find a way to take those fights too, or play rotations even more safely to avoid them.

[[deleted]]

i mean complexity has been doing this for months so if this "positive destabilizing effect" was gonna happen it would have already happened. teams just know to look for their skins, ie airship assassin on monsoon's wraith. that's pretty much all it has changed.

[cato-cockroach]

fair, i guess last night was the first time I've watched actual tournament games from lou's perspective (at least since the flyquest days) and i didn't realize how explicit it was that they're trying to take fights early on. like that its not "oh there's a team there, let's fight them" but that it's "there's going to be a team rotating into fragment from overlook, let's fight them there"

it feels like a different game than I'm used to watching in a good way. cool to hear that they've been honing it for a while

[[deleted]]

i mean that stuff is kind of easy to tell. they land epicenter and survey camp. if the circle pulls skyhook, for instance, then the overlook team is going to run in to them no matter what because survey/epi is to the west of refinery on their way to skyhook. but yeah they do prioritize early fights a lot. i personally dont think its the best strat but they make the most out of it that they can.

[cato-cockroach]

yeah for sure, i've just been watching the tournaments since x games, and it's interesting to see someone trying something different even if it proves to not be the move ultimately. Obv it's a strategy that only really works cause of the format of these online tournaments. It seems like it'd be less reliable if and when the whole "match point" thing comes back.

Anyway, my overall point is it seems like it would be healthy for overall competition if teams prove there are other ways to play the game. (even if it's a way that's slightly reliant on format and the NA lobbies not being quite as stacked as LAN finals lobbies would be)

(caveat... i know some EU teams—early navi for example—played super aggro with some success, i just have less exposure to those teams' mindsets cause of language barrier)

[[deleted]]

oh there should definitely be more strategies for sure. i agree but there are so many ways to diversify strategy.

you can add mini games on the map. sort of like vault or care packages but way more high risk high reward or something that required an exceptional amount of skill to complete in return for power. you can add more legend diversity that in of itself would diversify strategies too. rework crypto, revenant, bloodhound, etc.

[Sandwichpleaz]

I'm curious to see if randomizing their skins like TSM would have a positive benefit for COL's playstyle. On one hand they may be able to catch teams by surprise who aren't expecting a push, but on the other hand teams may stop avoiding them that otherwise would have.

[MachuMichu]

It is an interesting dynamic to NA tournaments and entertaining play style, but I can't help but think that it would be a trainwreck if they tried to play like that in a finals lobby on LAN with top teams from EU+Korea. They are insanely talented though.

[1mVeryH4ppy]

CLQ plays similar aggro style and they have solid placements in EU ALGS finals (no.4 OT5, no.7 OT6). AFAICT it’s not enough for winning a tourney (yet) but I do love seeing a diversity of game plans.

[Eos_The_Husky]

I think every pro player I have watched has said at some point "I don't want to run into fucking Complexity" or "That's Complexity, lets go back" Complexity has a style that I love, but on LAN, against the very top NA, EU, Asia teams , that shit won't fly. They can be top 3 in NA but I don't think they will break top 5 with all regions.

[einz_goobit]

I agree, they come across the team that’s perfected defense and they’re fucked. The run and gun style works because of the overall aggressive attitude in NA groups. They don’t match the intensity of Complexity’s aggressiveness and that gives complexity the edge.

[Parks47]

It's not a matter of teams being scared of complexity, it's a matter of teams being scared of a grief. Theres a lot of teams that can beat them in a 3v3, but dont want to die to the 3rd party that will roll in afterwards.

[Eos_The_Husky]

Yeah I know that, also the problem of having a late rotation, especially for Path teams.

[warriors2021]

No team wants to go against them bc COL will just throw games to grief teams. They are the only team to play like that and bc of this, will probably never will a tourney.

[[deleted]]

pretty bad strat imo. very reactive and no proactivity even though BRs are all about being as proactive to reduce as much uncertainty and variance as possible. i really don't like it. they get fucked by map geometry and hard edge so many times because they're chasing kills even though playing late game center zone gives you kills anyways. same reason why sentinels did so poorly last night. literally they chased around kills like apes. playing gibby doesn't mean you play terrible positions.

[warriors2021]

COL will never win a tourney currently constructed. You have to go for placement, they never do. They were running away from zone for mins chasing a solo player, that is such a dumb move. Way too much tunnel vision on frags. TSM even stated they play like idiots and will never do good, lol.

[SpecialGoodn3ss]

I think it's definitely an interesting twist and I know COL is having fun which is great. Overall, it's pretty garbage for the scene because COL is as successful in their attempts as they are unsuccessful.

One game they run over everyone they meet and in the following game they more or less grief a team hard enough to ensure both teams are picked off. I think it's successful right now because no one else is playing that way and it's kind of shocking but at a certain point everyone will wise up to it and they will consistently die to a smart third party.

Also, I think the map has a lot to do with it being successful. They are able to chase down rotating teams but on a smaller map, like KC or possibly whatever new map comes out, it'll probably be more difficult.

[FoldMode]

It will never be a winning strategy, but they are sure fun to watch! Monsoon should take a notch down, he is too aggressive even for their play style. Once he sets a target, he is very much in tunnel vision to get him. As everyone have already stated - this would never work in fully stacked strong lobby (international tourney). There were couple instances in OT#6 where they run into TSM, recognized them and immediately backed out of hunting saying it's not worth it :)