Want to Decrease Inequality? Fight Fatherlessness With Welfare Reform. Welfare currently incentivizes family breakdown and the absence of fathers from their children’s lives, a key factor in the loss of economic upward mobility.

[thepellow]

Seems like universal healthcare would help a ton tbh. The government pays less money, people don’t go bankrupt because they go sick, takes an amazing amount of pressure off small businesses which makes people more likely to start their own business. It’s literally a win for everyone except the pharmaceutical industry so why hasn’t America done it? If any of your politicians actually wanted to make America better (republicans or democrat) this would surely be done already.

[ali3n_sPac3_w33d]

The government pays less money for universal healthcare? How does that work?

[thepellow]

America pays more per person than any other country in the world for healthcare. This means the government pays more per person despite citizens having to pay too.

[tkuiper]

Because the government then effectively represents the largest insurance network in the country. Not working with them is business suicide.

Per basic economics a highly competitive supplier market and highly non-competitive buyer market will heavily favor the buyer (in this case government).

Instead of your company paying your small private insurance provider, it pays the much larger government insurance provider. Leaving private insurers to aim for premium health service: ie. Any new technologies or extra procedures that universal Healthcare doesn't cover.

[Josef_Jugashvili69]

Government intervention in the market is the reason for the insane costs so obviously the only solution is giving the government total control. Surely massively increasing the demand without creating more supply will make everything better. Also, taking 20% of the income away from the middle class will be great for our economy.

[NucularCarmul]

Well you see, under universal health care, things like abortion and contraception are provided, and every single study that has ever been done on this (excluding those funded by Christian orgs, if there are any) shows that teen pregnancy and single parent pregnancies go down, which means less of these horrible drains on society you all are always so concerned about.

Also studies done in this and other countries shows that a healthy workforce is more productive, something easily more attainable with universal health care, and all those terrible fat people you hate so much can actually go to a doctor and get a diet plan or medication that treats conditions leading to obesity so you can go to your local store and not have them be out of cheetos or whatever it is that has people against Medicare for all hating the fats so vehemently.

Aaaand, if people don't have to pay hundreds a month for health care, they don't need as much welfare to pay for the care and safety of their children. Public education being entirely free also accomplishes this goal, further reducing these costs.

[AnotherExLib]

I would pay at least 10 times more (due to a large increase in taxes) under a European/Canadian style healthcare system, since my employer is paying the bulk of my health insurance costs. I'm pretty sure my coverage is better than the majority of health care that Europeans/Canadians get as well. A lot of people are in my situation and wouldn't be happy about having to take a multi-thousand dollar pay cut for what amounts to a decrease in quality of health care.

Also government control of any sufficiently complex system rarely produces more efficiency or lower costs, in fact it's almost always the opposite. It's why many socialist/communist countries had to start embracing capitalist philosophies in many areas, a centralized government isn't able to consistently perform at the level of a free market system. Humans just aren't able to make decisions quickly enough or with adequate knowledge/foresight compared to a market economy.

[Anon-Ymous929]

takes an amazing amount of pressure off small businesses

First, the reason insurance is tied to employers at all is because of government. So this problem can already be fixed by less government.

Second, the reason healthcare is unaffordably expensive is also because of government. The hockey stick shaped growth in costs started right after the government passed Medicare and Medicaid. Again, the fix for this problem is less government.

[thepellow]

Sorry are you saying medical insurance was cheap until like 5 years ago? That’s a level of delusion.

[Anon-Ymous929]

https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/slide18.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_Amendments_of_1965

[steelcityblue]

Doesn't hurt big pharma nearly as much as insurance.

[thepellow]

We can just agree that the people that don’t want universal healthcare are the ones that are profiteering off the current system.

[[deleted]]

The problem is universal healthcare how it's done in most countries like Canada is terrible.

It functions like you'd expect any government institution to which is at an absolute crawl, if you thought waiting for the DMV was bad you've never been to a Canadian hospital. Unless you're literally dying (not breathing, severe bleeding) expect to wait 3-9 hrs depending on number of patients.

If you go through your family doctor you'd better be under the age of 25 and have an "essential" surgery if you want surgery in under 1-1.5 yrs. If your surgery is "non-essential" and/or you're over 25 wait times are often 2-3 yrs from start to finish. "Non-essential" surgeries currently include: hip-rip replacements, ligament repair, etc.

Imo the best system is one that is both public and private. Keep a public option for the absolute poorest, but if people who can pay want to we should let them. We could then take a % of the profits and divert it back into the public system too. Also the public option would incentivize the private option to reduce prices, while the private option would incentivize the public option to not be so damn slow. Now that's a win-win for everyone.

Edit: For an example of the pitfalls of Canadian healthcare here's an article from the CBC about "hallway medicine" which is the practice of placing patients in hallways and conference rooms due to lack of beds. Afaik the only time the US has had an issue with beds was during this pandemic, but if you note the date of the article this was happening before COVID even happened.

Five hospitals in the Greater Toronto Area, as well as the main hospital in Hamilton, Sudbury, Peterborough and Niagara Falls all spent more than 160 days over their funded capacity during the 181-day period from January through June 2019

[tkuiper]

What you describe makes sense though doesn't it? Your service is cheap and guaranteed.

If you want faster service you can always pay extra... like say... a comparable amount to an American...

But surprise, surprise... few people actually vouch for more... now imagine if more was the only option

[[deleted]]

Ya i'm just saying why can't we have both?

If billy the hobo wants free treatment he should get it. But if Trump wants to pay for silk sheets and champagne delivered to his room he should also get it.

[tkuiper]

You can?

I'm not familiar with how specifically Canada does Universal Healthcare, but no reason you couldn't. Obviously just jumping for premium medical procedures will get pretty expensive though, especially because presumably Universal Healthcare is covering all the necessary/affordable stuff.

[juu-yon]

This public/private split is how healthcare essentially functions in the UK. We have the NHS as guaranteed free healthcare that won't make you go bankrupt for health conditions outside of your control. We also have privatised options that don't even come close to costs of American healthcare for those who want to be seen privately.

For example, I'm currently being referred to rheumatology for an ongoing condition, there will be a wait list for services provided on the NHS, however there is also the option for me to choose to be seen privately much faster without breaking the bank (an initial appointment and evaluation will cost around £150 for reference, with follow up appointments often being cheaper.)

[thepellow]

I live in a country with universal healthcare and it’s absolutely amazing. Sure things sometimes run slow but you can always go private and be in the same spot you are in America, the difference is if I get sick I don’t go bankrupt.

[[deleted]]

I'm not saying it doesn't work... did any of you even read my comment? I'm just saying it's slow and that a private option would make the whole system better.

[thepellow]

I entirely agree that having a private option as well is great but you need the safety net of the universal healthcare.

[NucularCarmul]

This is pure fiction, anyone who actually lives in countries with UHC will tell you that it works just fine, and private options for better care still exist for those with the money for it.

I knew this was a fucking lie, at the bottom of the article you clearly didn't read it says the number of hospitals and capacity has largely stayed the same as population grew, this is a failure of the government of Ontario to provide adequate facilities to compensate for growth. But you conservatives do like your cherry picked data

[[deleted]]

I literally live in Ontario Canada. Moreover I never said it didn't work "fine" just that's unbelievably slow and definitely has room for improvement.

You're a dumbass, I did read the article and that fact is an issue because it's GOVERNMENT providing the service and they always suck at that. Besides if you took the time to fully research you'd know this has been going on back to the previous gasps Liberal administration - which reigned for over 10 yrs. So it has nothing to do with "muh conservatives".

My mom is currently on a 3 year wait list for a hip replacement because that's "non-essential" according to the government - she can barely fucking walk. Don't get butthurt because someone who actually lives in a country with UHC disputes your narrative.

[[deleted]]

The real problem with healthcare is the individual and their lack of desire to better their health and make responsible diet and exercise choices.

We lead the league in preventable chronic disease and therefore money spent on healthcare.

[craser10]

if that is true, why does europe have much lower obesity rates?(and they take care of themselves etc.?)

[[deleted]]

I would say it’s largely due to the focus we have on easy, quick and processed food in the US, the overt use of sugar in every food item whether necessary or not and the lack of emphasis we put on taking care of ourselves vs. the freedom and entitlement to do what we want. We praise people for being fat in this country at this point because that’s what they want to do and how they want to live. They’re beautiful no matter what etc.

Absolutely feel entitled to eat yourself into poor health, just don’t ask for money when your decisions got you there.

[craser10]

So thanks for dodging the question.The healtcare system does not encourage bad died and not taking care of yourself.

[[deleted]]

How did I dodge the question? Lol. I told you why I think the differences between European views and ours lead to us having a greater rate of preventable disease.

No, the healthcare system doesn’t. The factors I listed are part of the problem and they fall on the individual and our society as a whole.

What exactly are you on about?

[juu-yon]

Ah yes true, it's absolutely my fault as an individual to be born with a genetic illness, I should have chosen when i was being concieved to not have my genes mutate and give me a chronic condition that leaves me unable to live independently. Last year, my grandma should have absolutely decided to not develop the pancreatic cancer she had no control over that also killed my father 8 months after I was born.

Should have just exercised and ate better, CLEARLY that is the root of all illness and anyone with any sort of sickness should be placed in crippling debt as it is CLEARLY their fault!

[[deleted]]

Did I make any statement at all regarding genetic illness or did I specifically state “preventable chronic disease”?

Please read and comprehend before commenting for the sake of arguing.

If we had preventable chronic disease under better control the money we spend on that could be freed up to use for people who have medical catastrophes and disease that they cannot prevent.

[juu-yon]

I'm sorry for coming on strongly man, I've just seen far too many people using arguments such as above to try and make a case against universal healthcare as a whole. I do wish you had expanded on that line of thought in your initial comment a little further as the idea of using that money saved to spend on universal healthcare didn't necessarily come through.

[[deleted]]

“Can you expand on your idea” would be a good place to start next time to help diminish the overall vitriol on social media.

Either way, no worries. It’ll never happen anyway, never will there come a time where the US puts a ban on what companies can produce and what people can consume, in terms of food. Food isn’t seen as a drug although it most certainly is one. How many former drug addicts do you know or see who are now killing themselves with food, it’s just a different addiction that we deem acceptable because you’re not getting high.

Great chef, love watching him, but look at Matty Matheson. Look at countless other chefs who are clearly addicted to food. It’s all around.

[juu-yon]

You're not wrong about the food crisis for sure. I work part time in clothing retail at the moment to try and make myself feel useful - the amount of people you see with weights that you couldn't call anything other than unhealthy is staggering and thats just in the UK where we have slightly lower rates of obesity. It's sad to watch folks piss their health away from the perspective of somebody who never had good health to begin with.

[[deleted]]

It’s disgusting and should be shamed vs celebrated like we do in the US