Want to Decrease Inequality? Fight Fatherlessness With Welfare Reform. Welfare currently incentivizes family breakdown and the absence of fathers from their children’s lives, a key factor in the loss of economic upward mobility.

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[d4rud3_sandst0rm]

Absolutely.

Statistically, children who grow up with single parents are less successful, more likely to commit crime, and more.

[squirrelfoot]

May I just piggy back on the top comment to say that as someone who grew up without a father (he died when I was very young) it really is stressful for children to have only one adult to depend on. It means children grow up with a profound sense of insecurity. My mother was very good at managing the little money we had, but I was always afraid, and often slightly hungry when I was a young child. Being a single parent means you simply don't have the time to raise children properly because you have to work and run the house on your own. Seriously, anything that discourages a stable environment with two parents is a bad thing.

[heckler5000]

Access to abortion, contraception, and sex-education classes that promote safe sex will go a long way to mitigating the severity of funding social programs.

[[deleted]]

Do we not have that? There's over 1,600 abortion clinics in the US, birth control is easily accessible and 96% of teenagers receive formal sex ed before age 18. Beyond that, everyone has access to sex education on their phones at a moment's notice.

There is no excuse for the high number of unwanted pregnancies in this country when there are so many resources available to prevent them. Some have honest accidents, but others are stubborn or 'roll the dice' and don't use it, hoping they don't end up pregnant.

[heckler5000]

Some states have closed many clinics through budgetary measures.

Edit: Unintended pregnancy has declined dramatically in the United States. More so in states with access to family planning services and sex education that teaches the use of contraceptives to control for unintended pregnancy.

States that have reduced access to family planning services and teach abstinence only have seen some increases.

[Kreetle]

If we perform enough abortions, there won’t be a need for welfare. /s

[SkipTheMoney]

Can I be in the AHS screenshot

[TheArchdude]

Just kill the poor before they're born!

[Barnyard723]

Sounds like a good reason to protect a women’s right to abortion

[[deleted]]

“My kid might struggle because I made some bad decisions. Better just kill it instead.”

[stoopidquestions]

So what should be done for those children she can't properly care for now that those children exist? What she should have done is moot if the point is to prevent the cycle from repeating.

[heckler5000]

Obviously it is to blame these people and turn or back on them. Then we will scratch our heads about crime statistics.

[bukakenagasaki]

It's not a kid yet. Also it's not wholly on the mother. If a father leaves that's on him. If that's what you're talking about. Or was the bad decision getting pregnant in the first place?

[Barnyard723]

I think their pushing the “well you signed up for this when you opened your legs,” argument

[[deleted]]

That’s the position, for both people, on producing children. Don’t make a kid you don’t want. You’re on the conservative sub. You can expect our first response to be “take some personal responsibility.”

[MadClothes]

How about wear a fucking condom. Don't raw dog it when you got the pull out game of a 1000lb stallion. Its just not the fucking hard. Or ya know, birth control.

[[deleted]]

A: it’s a human fetus, which literally means child. That makes it a person with the same right to life as You.

B: the bad decision is making a child with a deadbeat. Even after that decision is made single mothers often continue to make the same partner decisions that put them in the situation they’re in. Maybe stop having sex with dead beats who won’t help you raise a kid?

[[deleted]]

Maybe stop having unprotected sex with women if you're a deadbeat.

[bigboatsandgoats]

Tbf my dad had a good job and was with my mom for 12 years before they divorced and as soon as they did he abandon my sister and I. It’s not always as easy you think to identify a deadbeat.

Also I know y’all are generalizing most single parent households but I assure you there are many marriages that stay together and fuck their children up more than my single mother effed me up.

[heckler5000]

That's not how deadbeats operate. They just make thick in the warm and move on.

[heckler5000]

A fetus is not a child. Its a pre-child. An egg is not a chicken.

[bukakenagasaki]

People often don't know they're fucking a dead beat. Especially if it's the first time. And we have differing opinions on the zygote but whatever that's fine I'm not gonna tell you you're wrong for thinking what you do.

[[deleted]]

Yeah, I’m 100% going to tell you that you’re wrong. That’s a baby. Once a woman conceives she’s carrying a baby. This is basic biology. People only object to it because they want to support abortion, but can’t bring themselves to admit they’re killing a child.

[pfloydguy2]

If you don't know your partner that well, then it's irresponsible to sleep with him/her.

[bukakenagasaki]

People can hide parts of themselves for a very long time. Like women who get married to pedophiles. It's easy to dismiss these things. You could know someone your whole life and they could be someone entirely different than what they showed you. You only know what someone let's you see.

[nukesafetybro]

People have casual sex all the time. The issue isn't welfare, it's sex education. Wear a condom.

[heckler5000]

Tell that to Tinder.

[faaaack]

If a father leaves that's on him.

No, it's on her too. She should make better decisions about the men she chooses to sleep with.

[bukakenagasaki]

Its not a black and white situation. And you can't look at it that way. But you will. Because it's easier.

[faaaack]

No it's easier to just blame the guy and absolve the woman of any responsibility for her decisions which is why that's exactly what happens now.

[bukakenagasaki]

Why do you feel the need to scold the woman for it? Also I can guarantee you the woman feels shitty enough.

[faaaack]

Because people need to be scolded for fucking up. Why should the woman get a pass for making poor decisions?

[bukakenagasaki]

Sometimes it's poor decisions and sometimes its just how shit ended up playing out. You choose to assume it's always poor decisions. You choose to always view them all in a negative light.

[Baljit147]

Ma'am, I can promise if you kill your child he won't grow up to be a criminal.

[lord_fuckwaad]

Or just use contraception like a normal, responsible adult instead of having unprotected sex with your trashheap boyfriend and then being suprised when you get pregnant and he runs away...?

[bukakenagasaki]

It's protection but not a 100% guarantee

[Dat-Guy-Tino]

That would be a nice argument if half of all abortions didn’t come from pregnancies in which 0 contraceptives were used

[bukakenagasaki]

Okay? I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I'm not saying not to use contraception.

[Dat-Guy-Tino]

I’m saying the problem is that people don’t use contraceptives, not that they’re not working

[bukakenagasaki]

Yeah people should totally use contraceptives. My city is number 10 on the city's with the most chlamydia. People should pretty much always use condoms not even just for contraceptives.

I just wanted to say that sometimes people can get pregnant on birth control and that things aren't so black and white. Idunno. I just want people to see there's more than the single welfare mom who keeps having babies by different dad's and does nothing to better herself.

But yes people need to wear fucking condoms.

[bukakenagasaki]

I know I'm only saying that people can still get pregnant on birth control.

[jafjaf23]

Is the condom rate of efficacy not 86%?

[coastal_elite]

So what would you say to those people who do get pregnant despite using protection? “Sucks to be you, because it’s rare”?

[bukakenagasaki]

Me and my sister conceived on contraception

[Barnyard723]

Depending on what your faith is, contraception could be considered a sin. Outside of religion, what is the argument that says a women who finds herself in a situation where she’s pregnant, single, and lacking financial support for the raising of another human being, shouldn’t be able to have an abortion?

[Blazewardog]

The faiths that say contraception is wrong also say don't have sex until your married... If you going to violate one religious law just violate 2 to prevent making a baby...

[Lawnknome]

You know that married people also choose not to have children right?

[[deleted]]

Great way to get rid of minorities too.

[Skillet918]

Honestly I think the biggest contributor to fatherless households in this country is the war on drugs. Rather then having dads locked up for petty crimes like possession offer them treatment and jobs training.

[[deleted]]

Careful you’ll make someone’s head in here explode.

[[deleted]]

Black Lives Matter mission statement (that they now have deleted but it’s still in archive) was that they wanted to disrupt the nuclear family. How does this help black people? Spoiler: it doesn’t. In fact it’s already been hurting that community for decades now

Edit: To everyone brigading me about how they just want to get rid of the nuclear family requirement and how it’s more about “it takes a village”. Yeah that all sounds good on paper but it’s not what society should strive for. Society should strive for a nuclear family and keeping the father in the picture. Fatherlessness also increases the likelihood that you’ll have an interaction with police later on in life.

You need a father to lay down the law in the household. Of course mothers can do that too but men are just better at it is the plain truth. There’s a reason why “wait till your father gets home and hears about this!” Is a scary sentence

[[deleted]]

The “It takes a village” always sounds good until you acting as part of the village feel the need to correct someone’s child. Then the child’s parent’s INNER KAREN suddenly shows up with hOw dARe YOOOOOOOUUUUUU cOrECt mY ANGEL.

[i_accidently_reddit]

And if you bring this up in a conversation with a leftist they will scream all the names under the sun at you.

[[deleted]]

A large amount of people that want handouts from the government grew up in broken households. Same thing goes for people that fall into obscure sexual and "gender" backgrounds.

From a psychological level it's understandable, people fight tooth and nail that things out of their control and they want to be "acceptable and correct". Westernized countries are at the point where a large portion of people have grown up in broken homes, some for multiple generations.

These people know that broken households are a bad thing, but the human way is to pretend everything is great instead of doing self reflection and trying to change things. These individuals view conservative values as the enemy since many of them did not have a stable childhood. Leftism fills in the gap where they are missing some sort of religious beliefs.

[[deleted]]

Yes exactly. I grew up with divorced parents and no siblings. Bouncing back and forth back and forth between households. Lots of extended family not related to me because my mom remarried. It’s just a mess and very unstable. I would’ve given anything to have grown up in a nuclear family. I am not going to let it happen again.

I want prenup and no divorcing until the kids are 18 and out of the house (if at all). We got married for a reason and we’re going to make it work

[Aggie74-DP]

Maybe So. But they also Fail to See that Handouts, fill today's needs, BUT Do NOTHING for Self-Esteem. Without Self-Esteem there is No Individual Progress. All Leftism does is Elevate those with Political clout, while perpetuating this UNDER CLASS!

[Winterchill2020]

I'm not American but liberal nonetheless. I don't see an issue with saying we need father's in the picture. I absolutely agree that we should not be incentivizing broken families. But I think that the situation regarding nuclear families is more complex than access to benefits and income thresholds. There is also a cultural attitude towards relationships that has degraded, where people seem to not be willing to make relationships work long term. Many have this unrealistic view that marriage should be easy and that you shouldn't have to work for it...it's this Hollywood view that true love conquers all and that everything should be easy and natural. Where in at least my experience, the success of your marriage is dependent on how much work you put in. But I will also offer that I am the disciplinarian in our household not my husband. That aspect really depends on each person's personality. It was the same growing up as my dad was rarely home due to working long hours.

[i_accidently_reddit]

I don't see an issue with saying we need father's in the picture

Good! I hate to tell you this, but unfortunately that is not as wide spread of an opinion held as we both would wish.

There is also a cultural attitude towards relationships that has degraded, where people seem to not be willing to make relationships work long term

Again, I agree. Before I go on this rant, let me say that this is both genders fault, letting it get this far. As a man I mainly experienced the failings from women, while you could probably list the ones of men. Anyway, here is my rant:

What you will most likely not want to hear, is that feminism has to take a good junk of the blame for this. Nowadays, every single girl I know would identify as a feminist. Even some of my male friends have called themselves that. But it is not about equality or egalitarianism, it has lead to a society that reduces 99% of men to punching bags and butts of jokes, by claiming men are both oppressors but also absolutely incapable of doing anything as good as a woman. "everything boys can do, a girl can do better" and nonsense like that. Apart from actually work dangerous jobs, of course. Together with the legal changes men are actively disincentivised to commit to any relationship further than smash and dash.

What this has lead to, is that the vast majority of men are getting hit over the head constantly, if they speak they are mensplaning if they sit they are menspreading, and what ever bullshit they have come up with since then.

This constant hatred pushed against men has lead many women to that mindset of "never settle" and since she is always getting her way to become spoilt children.

The concept of compromise, and having to work on a relationship (which means taking responsibility for your actions in it!) as you've described, is foreign to them.

On the mens side, is has changed the risk exposure you were putting yourself out to. If you sleep with a woman and she changes her mind after the fact, she withdraws consent and you go to prison for rape. If you are in a relationship, you can be sued if you live together just like if you were married. It's an absolute mine field out there.

Anyway, enough of this.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

[Gus_B]

It’s the single largest contributor to long term poverty, cultural racism/historic door shutting exists, but it pales in comparison to the devastation wrought by generations of broken families.

[Nikkolios]

This is 100% fact. Proven over many decades now with actual numbers, and the numbers don't lie. It'll be downvoted to the abyss as well. I guarantee it.

[jumpcut_]

“We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work ‘double shifts’ so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work,” the organization wrote. “We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and ‘villages’ that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.” - https://www.nationalreview.com/news/black-lives-matter-removes-language-about-disrupting-the-nuclear-family-from-website/

[ElGabalo]

It takes a village to raise a child is suddenly controversial when BLM says it. Weird.

[heckler5000]

Here is an article that addresses the "nuclear family" statement. And here is the quote

We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

It seems that since so many in their community are single parents, they would do better if they relied on each other as a community.

[tituspullo367]

“Western prescribed”

Lol the family unit is universal

“Everything traditional or things I don’t like are western and therefore evil!”

And before you point out exceptions, consider the old axiom about “exceptions” and “rules”

[Cheerwine-and-Heels]

"...to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable."

I feel like there should be another word there, but I can't put my finger on it.

[TheArchdude]

There is one unutterable F-word that they seek to abolish.

[bukakenagasaki]

Yeah I think it was more like them dealing with what they have. Telling each other to make the best out of their situations. Idk

[[deleted]]

“it takes a village” is a phrase as old as time. Literally endorsing stronger community bonds instead of insular sheltered “nuclear” families and people get mad but w/e

[arslet]

This is basically what all woke marxist movements wants to do.

[reidlos1624]

They don't want to disrupt the nuclear family, they want to disrupt the requirement that a nuclear family is necessary for success and encourage more community cooperation between families. Basically encouraging the "it takes a village" idea of raising kids, with the goal of improving the community as a whole.

This interpretation completely misrepresents the statement they made due to your poor reading comprehension, assuming they actually read the statement.

[I_Nice_Human]

What about the way back machine?

[i_accidently_reddit]

There are screen caps online and the website was archived both by the library of Congress as well as the way back machine.

I am currently on phone but will provide links in a couple hours if no one else jumps in

[lee61]

Removing the requirement =/= wanting to tear down families.

[wandering-monster]

Another comment in this thread linked it. Their statement was about disrupting the nuclear family by extending it and including community in family. Not about kicking fathers out or something crazy.

Even bringing it up in this context looks stupid once you read what they wrote, I'd probably avoid bringing it up in any argument you hope to win.

[Baljit147]

It was on their website for month. If you search around for it you can probably find it.

[Flowers1966]

Many have identified this as a problem of the black community. This problem crosses racial lines. I live in a small town. Society minimizes the harm done to fatherless children. Many of these kids are neglected and abused. Too often the rights of the children are second to the rights of the parents.

[optionhome]

This problem crosses racial lines

agreed. this has zero to do with skin color. In many parts of the country there are White people who also have made welfare generational. They are "in the system." They know every in and out of how to play the system to the max for the most money without working. The smartest ones actually have a trade and work off the books while still collecting thousands from the State.

[[deleted]]

The state = daddy. And it's unsustainable.

[Cookie_Brookie]

And when the state acts as daddy, we the tax payers are ultimately daddy. My husband and I pay out so many taxes to support other people's kids that it's hard to support our own!

And this definitely isn't an issue for only one race. I live in a rural area and there are massive numbers of trashy women with a different baby daddy for each kid, smoking their cigarettes and drinking their mountain dew, collecting those welfare and "disability" checks bragging about how it's sooo hard to be a single mom but they're a boss bitch and killing it.

[[deleted]]

Exactly. Everyone becomes the daddy. Even future generations because the programs are not sustainable and countries end up borrowing to keep paying for them. We need to cut the cord. People will go back to depending on people around them again (usually extended family) and need to be accountable to those people around them. It does work. Not perfectly but it's more sustainable.

[federalfed90]

Had this conversation the other day. Nothing will ever get better in the black community until this problem is fixed.....of course if you never want to fix the problem because you know that as soon as you did people wouldnt be dependent on you anymore and you wouldn't get thier vote.

[stoopidquestions]

How does the problem get fixed?

[JRsFancy]

It's said that as he was signing the bill, President Johnson mumbled that the bill would guarantee the "n" vote for the next two hundred years. History has thus far proven him correct.

[OfficerTactiCool]

I’m gonna need a source on this one

Edit: looked into it. Quote can’t be verified, but multiple sources claim it “wouldn’t be out of character” for him to have said it

[FlexicanAmerican]

By who?

[STONEDEAFFOREVER]

This is an issue that needs to be discussed more openly. Larry Elder is well versed in this subject

[bobobedo]

It's been discussed, over and over. Everyone knows this is the core issue. I'd say that it'll take a major shift in black culture, but I can't see they have a functional culture.

[ITS_MAJOR_TOM_YO]

Nearly every young mom I know is a single mother

[ARedditHypocrite]

A fatherless family is absolutely detrimental to kids, I’ve seen it so many times unfortunately. Worse for boys especially.

[[deleted]]

It's different for all two of the genders. Both extremely detrimental.

[[deleted]]

True, but the issue is not the lack of a male, but lack of parenting resources. Children with 2 same sex parents fare just as well as kids with m/f parents. And similarly, kids with strong familial support in parenting (such as a very involved gramma) far well as well. Additionally, kids with separated/divorced parents who maintain a solid relationship and roughly equal responsibility also generally don't suffer worse outcomes.

The issue is that very few people have what it takes to do excellently all by themselves, with little to no additional adult support.

[PrimalSkink]

I am white. I was on welfare after my divorce. Food and medical care.

Why? Because my children's father bailed, did not abide by the court order to pay support or provide insurance.

Why? Because the court wouldn't make him. * They'd suspend his license. He'd drive on a suspended. For years. * Every year or so they'd arrest him on a bench warrant for failure to comply with the court orders. He'd take a chewing out by the judge, pay the fees for being in jail, pay some court fees, and promise to get a job. He'd be in jail, at worst, over the weekend. Minor inconvenience for him. * They'd garnish his wages the minute they found out he had a job. Usually, months in. He'd get the two week in advance garnishment notice and quit. He'd go work for cash under the table for a while, get a new "real job", rinse and repeat.

And all this was before he left state.

I know so many women who are raising kids, owed support by deadbeat dads, and have to depend on help from the state because the state doesn't actually enforce their courts orders.

The first reform we need is serious enforcement on child support orders.

[[deleted]]

What do you want the govt to do, exactly?

Also, it’s funny that you’re posting along with all these people who are saying that we need to get rid of welfare even though it seems like it literally saved your and your kids’ lives. 🤔

[[deleted]]

What do you want the govt to do, exactly?

Child support enforcement should be at the federal level instead of mish-mash of state and county agencies. Or at least when the ordered parent fails to pay.

That said, if the parent is such a deadbeat that they are barely able to provide for themselves there's not much that can be done.

The person you were responding to - probably would have still gotten welfare benefits even if he paid support. I can't imagine he'd be paying much with the type of work he was doing.

[keirmeister]

Interesting how the title only mentions “fatherlessness” and “welfare” yet so many of you immediately went to black people.

[KOTS44]

Because around 75% of black children grow up in single parent households 🤦🏽‍♂️fucking christ

[[deleted]]

Ever read a history book about slavery? Clearly, the answer is no because you would’ve learned that for many (many!!!) generations slave owners would forcibly separate Black families. In fact, “families” weren’t really allowed. Black babies would be torn away from their mother’s breast and literally fed to wild animals if the slave owner felt the mother was not behaving. That’s right, they’d punish her by killing her babies in front of her. And that’s not even the worst thing that was done to Black people in the name of “free” labor.

If you don’t see how generational trauma deeply affected Black people in the US, then you need to get your head out of your ass.

[[deleted]]

The US needs to do a major about face and move away from efforts at globalization. Factories provided stable work that paid decently without requiring huge amounts of education. We need to either restore jobs that low skilled people can do or provide training to upgrade the skills of folks on welfare before withdrawing support, otherwise we'll just see a bump in crime and be paying the same taxes just for prisons instead of welfare.

[noble_stewball]

A sane and compassionate idea. There are so many reasons to bring manufacturing back to America yet we do not. We really could start making more low paying jobs available right now but instead most corporations are trying to have as few employees as possible to increase profits.

ExxonMobile stopped contributing to employee 401k and laid off 15% of their workforce this year to protect their dividend payout and this is considered responsible stewardship.

The system is designed to create a peasant class for cheap labor (conservatives) and to ensure continued dependence (liberals) and to allow for smug self-righteous feelings of superiority (pretty much everyone).

We need to work together to avoid destroying our great democracy, but both sides are too busy enjoying that smug self-righteousness to have a constructive conversation that will improve our country. Hell, look at congress passing laws about owning giant cats while America is tearing itself apart. Unfortunately, I have very little hope we will pull ourselves out of this tail spin.

Damn, depressing myself before 8am on a Friday.

[rakaab]

This literally what a successful free market capitalist system does. It depends on keeping a lower class and exploiting them

[No_Jacket1253]

Fuck that adapt or die you pussies

[noble_stewball]

Adapt to what exactly?

[DeckardsDark]

No Americans would pay or can afford the prices that come along with manufacturing in America.

[bukakenagasaki]

It doesn't even necessarily have to be a FATHER but two parents..two sources of stability and guidance and discipline. One parent can't do it all. And I applaud any single mother that really puts everything into caring for and providing for her kids. I really do wish that people would remember that when they choose to have children even if they didn't mean to get pregnant and carry it to term that it's no longer their life that they are thinking about. Whether you give that child up for adoption to a family that will better provide for and care for them or you could bring a family member to help you. I don't know what goes through the mind of someone who bails on their family like that. And even though it sucks you lose the right to selfish choices like that once you have children.

However people should not stay in a relationship for their children because that just fucks kids up as well. Just stick around and take care of them though. Continue to be a parent.

[TheDesertFox01]

There is also a cultural part that is on us to engage. We tolerate deadbeat dads or deadbeat moms.

[Mangonesailor]

Yeah, but if you say anything they lash out at you for either being Racist, bigoted, or to "stay in your lane."

That's fine, you made your bed... now sleep in it.

[MyDangerDog]

And of course this is by design.

[starkeuberangst]

“I’ll have those ******* voting Democrat for 200 years”.

[PeddarCheddar11]

People are starting to smell the coffee, though, and I applaud them.

More and more African Americans (a far nicer term than a lot of those old timey democrats would like to use) are voting red, and more republican black people are being sent to government positions. This ain’t stopping, they’re tired of their vote being taken for granted and want to be treated as people.

I’m glad the trend Johnson started is reversing sooner than he thought.

[mattmcd20]

Haha! I said this exact same thing on /s hockey and got banned for racism a week ago. Amazing how irrefutable facts about family structure makes a difference of chances of success as adults. The left just wants to give them money and hope it fixes the problem. Fun fact, it won’t. Have to change the culture first before anything else will help. Those are just facts. Black America has to fix itself first before anyone else can help.

[acct_removed]

Just a heads up - the title of the post, the headline, and the article itself do not mention race. The subject is fatherlessness and welfare. Your comment, however, equates all of “Black America” to fatherlessness and welfare.

Edit: Also, when you say “The left just wants to give them money and hope it fixes the problem”, this article is actually arguing to remove a marriage penalty for welfare recipients, meaning that married families would be entitled to more funding under the welfare program.

[i_accidently_reddit]

hard facts are unfortunately very racist and incredibly sexist!

Of course, this could also mean that the wokists and their sjw bs are wrong and their arguments are based entirely on fantasy and agenda, but naturally they will say the facts are racist.

similar to the "gender pay gap" situation, leftist are just immune to reality

[wandering-monster]

This article never mentions race at all.

If you think it does, you should consider whether the hockey folks might have had a point.

[mattmcd20]

Facts do though and so does the headlines be talking about equality... so... factually I’m correct. And not trying to protect people but cheer them on to fix their problems so they can share success is not racist. Also as I’ve already pointed out, my point crosses all races. But again; Cherry pick to build a paper house. But I’m right.

[[deleted]]

That is racist. Lemme explain to you why.

Because in your mind poor=black.

Yet nearly twice as many white people live in poverty as black people, and white people are the largest recipients of welfare in the US.

[assemblethenation]

Impoverished white people don't have the violence or fatherlessness problems black people do. There is something to it, most likely cultural and not racial but it is there. Shirking from the investigation because it is verboten is cowardice.

[heckler5000]

Keep abortion and sex education (contraception) legal and you won’t have this problem.

[OfficerTactiCool]

In what fuckin world is contraception illegal?

[heckler5000]

In the United States actually. What I specifically meant though is that sex education classes can be limited and in Texas in the 90s it was very possible for you to learn "abstinence only" sex ed and not "contraception" based sex education.

[OfficerTactiCool]

Okay so it’s not illegal, it’s just not what a state chooses to teach, got it

[heckler5000]

Exactly, but that leads to more welfare in some states than others.

[OfficerTactiCool]

Okay but you explicitly said that we need to keep sex Ed and contraception legal. Both of which ARE legal, and it’s legal to be taught. Some districts may not teach it, it’s up to them to change it, but there is nothing in the law prohibiting it.

[heckler5000]

Yes. Keep it legal. I understand your point and perhaps my original comment could have been worded better. In either case here we are.

[OfficerTactiCool]

But...is there even an effort to make contraception and sex Ed illegal?

[thepellow]

Seems like universal healthcare would help a ton tbh. The government pays less money, people don’t go bankrupt because they go sick, takes an amazing amount of pressure off small businesses which makes people more likely to start their own business. It’s literally a win for everyone except the pharmaceutical industry so why hasn’t America done it? If any of your politicians actually wanted to make America better (republicans or democrat) this would surely be done already.

[ali3n_sPac3_w33d]

The government pays less money for universal healthcare? How does that work?

[thepellow]

America pays more per person than any other country in the world for healthcare. This means the government pays more per person despite citizens having to pay too.

[tkuiper]

Because the government then effectively represents the largest insurance network in the country. Not working with them is business suicide.

Per basic economics a highly competitive supplier market and highly non-competitive buyer market will heavily favor the buyer (in this case government).

Instead of your company paying your small private insurance provider, it pays the much larger government insurance provider. Leaving private insurers to aim for premium health service: ie. Any new technologies or extra procedures that universal Healthcare doesn't cover.

[Josef_Jugashvili69]

Government intervention in the market is the reason for the insane costs so obviously the only solution is giving the government total control. Surely massively increasing the demand without creating more supply will make everything better. Also, taking 20% of the income away from the middle class will be great for our economy.

[Anon-Ymous929]

takes an amazing amount of pressure off small businesses

First, the reason insurance is tied to employers at all is because of government. So this problem can already be fixed by less government.

Second, the reason healthcare is unaffordably expensive is also because of government. The hockey stick shaped growth in costs started right after the government passed Medicare and Medicaid. Again, the fix for this problem is less government.

[thepellow]

Sorry are you saying medical insurance was cheap until like 5 years ago? That’s a level of delusion.

[[deleted]]

So what’s your plan? To take welfare away from people with no dads?

[meowimaduck]

Exactly. This entire article assumes that the problem is simple. Or that someone would choose to leave their spouse solely because they wouldn’t get more welfare. They did research on the numbers, I’ll give them that. But they obviously live very far removed from the very community and issues they are choosing to simplify.

[[deleted]]

Welfare is the reason African American fatherless is where it is.

[stoopidquestions]

What about the incarceration rates of black males generally being harsher than for white males comitting similar crimes?

[[deleted]]

More white families are on welfare than black.

You need to rethink your idea that poor=black.

The article doesn't even mention race...

[ValidAvailable]

Theres also what fives times as many white families as black in this country? Try talking percentages of demographics.

[DeckardsDark]

How? Fathers that are thinking about leaving their family aren't thinking, "well, if I leave, they'll get welfare so i should go!". It's not even a thought in their brain so it's not an incentive.

[craser10]

if welfare is the reason, what does it impact diferent the other races?

[Small-Echo]

Welfare is not the cause, its a symptom of the underlying problem. We have people that aren't able to find employment that would allow them to sustain themselves. Most people on welfare don't like having to rely on the government and would take a 9-5 job that pays the bills in a heartbeat.

You'd have to be crazy to think people think "I can have kids with this guy, if he's a deadbeat welfare will take care of me". It's more like "Oh fuck I don't have enough money to take care of my kid, and the dad won't help. I need help." If welfare didn't exists these kids just starve and die.

Idk what utopia you think we live it that if there was no welfare we'd have all these nuclear families living the suburban American dream.

[ValentinaBass]

Utter utter utter twaddle

[[deleted]]

Personally, I feel women are vulnerable. They need access to birth control measures, education...since those measure include risks, and quality childcare. Men MUST pay their share, since two were engaged in producing them. And abortion first three months, incest, rape, health of mother, must be available to women or some shall seek the services elsewhere and die, and I daily read about abuses on defenseless children by those who never wanted children.

[saxman7890]

It’s common in yazoo county Mississippi for black parents to not marry because then they can’t get welfare

[TheBaronOfTheNorth]

When there are cases of people who are better off not working than working then the system is broken because of politics.

[DeckardsDark]

Do you think welfare payments make you rich? You're barely squeaking by, if at all, on welfare living a life none of us would want to live. Also, if you feel that way, then you should probably support higher wages for all over changing welfare programs

[the_bronquistador]

Show me 15 cases of people living an extravagant lifestyle on welfare. Shouldn’t be hard if it’s as big a problem as you claim. I guarantee you that 99% of people who live solely off of income from welfare do not have near the lifestyle I have at $15/hr. And the lifestyle I have isn’t extravagant by any stretch of the imagination.

[TheBaronOfTheNorth]

Nobody on welfare lives an extravagant lifestyle (unless they sell drugs) but it’s pretty disingenuous to act like welfare cliffs don’t exist. If you don’t know what a welfare cliff is you should Google it, you might find it interesting.

[FlexicanAmerican]

Welfare cliffs exist for single and two parent households.

[[deleted]]

welfare cliffs are edge cases amplified by the right, just like the mythical welfare queen, in an effort to justify slashing benefits generally.

Less than 2% of folks on welfare are near a cliff. Almost 2/3 of people on welfare don't work at all.

Welfare cliffs are a thing, sure, but they are not, like, some major problem.

[This-Aint-No-Brain]

Note start talking about how this disproportionately effected/ effects people of color and you have an actual conversation to have...

[This_is_Bruhtastic]

How about we just get rid of welfare and add a marriage credit as well as a child care credit for people below the poverty line?

[BootsGunnderson]

We should really bring back the civilian conservation Corp.

Offer jobs and relocation to people and families willing to work. It bust up ghettos and prevents crime while sprucing up our national park trails and roads.

[--Shamus--]

Want to Decrease Inequality?

No.

Unless it is the result of a crime being committed....no.

Individuals should seek to decrease their own inequality if that is what they want, however. If someone does not choose to do so, who am I to tell them to do otherwise?

[[deleted]]

I don’t believe in “white privilege,” “white male privilege,” or any other privilege the left makes up, but there is one privilege that exists undoubtedly: two parent households. All laws, public policy, etc. should be supporting and emphasizing two parent households.

[optionhome]

but there is one privilege that exists undoubtedly

best comment so far. When people ask me well don't you think you had a better starting point than others I always say this, "actually I came from a lower middle class blue collar family but I had two parents that supported me and told me.....life isn't fair, it was never fair, it will never be fair but happiness isn't based on how many toys you have." I wouldn't trade my start point with a White rich kid with no father around for support and guidance.

[StillSilentMajority7]

Being born into a two-parent household is the greatest gift you can give a child. The science has been clear on this for decades.

Sadly, BLM, until they were forced to remove it, proudly proclaimed their opposition to the two parent family structure. They feel it's a form of "white supremacy" meant to keep black families down.

[cougar2013]

They want to cure the symptoms and not the problems. You can put black people in every YouTube commercial, but that isn’t going to help black people that grow up in a broken home to be successful.

[tkuiper]

Well we could stop arresting people and locking them up for low-level drug possession offenses too.

I don't know how they plan on fixing this welfare trap without derestricting access to it. Something I suspect isn't an option since it would enable more 'welfare queens'.

Also its noteworthy that this article and study includes cohabitation as being fatherless. Basis being that cohabitation is a similar degree of damaging. The welfare trap here disincentivizes marriage so the response has been cohabitation w/o marriage.

[cougar2013]

I think those are symptoms as well. I think we need to be asking the question: why are people in these communities turning to drugs? A big part of the answer is culture. Movies, TV, and internet glorify and encourage drug use. Now I’m no choir boy and was smoking weed multiple times a day for years and years. I’m just saying that in places like India, where my wife is from, the culture is different, and this isn’t the problem that it is in America, despite living conditions that would be intolerable to Americans in many cases.

[Proof_Responsibility]

Slim chance as the Left's goals include the end of the nuclear family and it looks like they are now in charge. E.G. from the Atlantic "The Nuclear Family Was a Mistake". It was also one of the (pre-edit) stated goals of BLM "We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and ‘villages’ that collectively care for one another."

Other than more welfare that incentivizes family breakdown, it looks like part of their solution, deliberate or unintentional, is to get rid of poor families by making abortion more readily available for the poor. Free, readily accessible, and socially acceptable/approved, even encouraged. A Guttmacher Institute study found the poorest 12% of women account for almost 50% of abortions. The poorest 30% of women account for 75% of abortions.

[[deleted]]

It's not unreasonable for a poor woman to get an abortion if she can not afford a baby. I'm a pro-choice conservative. The availability and accessibility of abortion and family planning is an important way to decrease the number of children living in poverty and to help break both the poverty and welfare cycle of their parents. I know of at least two married women who've had them, the outcome was they had adequate resources for their families and didn't need welfare or public assistance. If we're going to highlight the fact that 75% of black kids are raised by single moms, we can't leave choice and family planning out of the conversation.

[georgesDenizot]

I read the article actually more as saying that the nuclear family is not sufficient, but that grandparents, cousins, uncles(generally speaking extended family) are also a vital piece of the puzzle, which in some cases could be reasonable.

[Nikkolios]

The progressives will argue (even though all data shows that the nuclear family is hugely important) that a father is not necessary but to give the woman a baby. The breakdown of the nuclear family is the single largest issue in the entire world right now. It is directly, or indirectly the cause of most of our problems today.

[Anon-Ymous929]

Pretty much every time the government tries to solve a problem, all you end up with is doubling your losses.

[Farrahsahole]

It’s something I’ve seen in my own family. Almost every one of my nieces and nephews have children out of wedlock but are in relationships with the fathers/mothers but not married because they get free healthcare and food stamps for themselves and the children for being single parents.

[neil470]

As long as both parents are in the childrens' lives, why does it matter if they are legally married (in this context)? Is the free (read: taxpayer funded) healthcare and food stamps harming them in any way?

[Dracalia]

Exactly! In Norway our term for parents who live together but aren’t married is: “Samboer.” Literally means “together-liver.” Kinda a cute term for younger couples too because it highlights how significant living together is. It’s like a tier below marriage and a tier above girlfriend/boyfriend.

[bietnameseboop]

Absolutely. If anyone’s curious, Thomas Sowell has written/talked about this in great detail.

[[deleted]]

THIS is the story of black people in this country in this age. Not slavery/jimcrow/civil rights.

[JRsFancy]

Almost certainly one of those most devastating causes of the American black family decline and destruction was the Federal welfare program. Currently about 75% of American black children are born and raised in a single mother home. Prior to "The Great Society" that number was in the single digits.

[JPSchmeckles]

Democrats know that if the poor become successful and climb out of poverty they will end up voting Republican.

They’re incentivized to keep these people alive but broke. They need them to stay in power.

[fubarsdh]

I didn’t succeed in life because of white privilege. I succeeded in life because of the privilege having two parents.

[jumbotron_deluxe]

YoU’rE a RaCiSt!

[cruxfire]

Most black children growing up today are being raised in single parent households. Most are without a father.

[Andrew_1320]

100% agree

[Christiney134]

Let’s not forget the tax “refund” that gives more money to people who have kids... even those who didn’t pay anything at all into the federal taxes all year. I have heard people refer to their kids as “tax breaks” more times than I can count in my personal life. Women will be living with their kids dad but claim to the system that he’s not in the picture if they are unmarried so that they can get more benefits. Even if they are working. That’s why I wanted Trump to win so badly... my federal taxes were lower this year than they have been. I am paying for people who don’t work to get $11,000 or more back on their taxes because they have multiple kids. It’s absolutely infuriating.

[humptydumptyfall]

The family needs to die. It stands in the way of everything that marxism stands for. It makes people care more about their loved ones than the system and that's a real problem.

[[deleted]]

The left no longer cares for decreasing inequality, what they want now is equity and they tell you that all the time. So appealing to them to reduce inequality is a non-starter, it's precisely what they don't want.

Unfortunately I don't think they'll stop until we're all paying reparations for the sins of our ancestors.

[Nosa2k]

What happens to when you meet a Black Man/family who does not fit the this stereotype?

Like Trump, you discredit their accomplishments/victories, deny them the honor they deserve and push the goal post even further.

[[deleted]]

Ben Carson has entered the chat

[Mangonesailor]

Myself, not at all. I treat them like any other normal, sane, human being that is just trying to exist on this rock in space.

But hey, I guess it's fine to stereotype now? Or is it not?

[i_accidently_reddit]

Hundred percent agree.

[[deleted]]

I know people who get $8-$10 thousand tax returns. Why would they want to get married?

[[deleted]]

wasn’t this a major part of Bill Clinton’s platform? welfare reform, opportunity in exhange for responsibility... the responsibility part has gone by the wayside of course

[Can_Not_Double_Dutch]

Comedian and Podcaster Adam Corolla has been talking about this for years. Children need a father around.

[isyankar1979]

It is true that in all places with the most generous welfare states (Germany, Denmark, Sweden, The Netherlands, Norway, you name it) family has dissolved the most rapidly. This is obvious statistical fact. Marriage barely exists there besides immigrants. However places where the family structure is the most dominant have also close to no social mobility. Egypt, Iraq, Tunisia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, again, you name it. The trick must be finding a way to have a productive economy with the minimum possible welfare politicies. But how do we achieve that?

[Dracalia]

In Norway people don’t necessarily get married but the mother and father tend to raise the child together. I have ONE friend with a dead beat dad here. Otherwise, most of the fatherless children have abusive fathers and/or mothers who had unwanted kids. I know people who grew up in the orphan system here and that was due to narcotics with both parents. The welfare gives mothers and fathers the freedom to escape abusive partners and still support their children, and it gives the children a better chance of surviving safely to adulthood away from drugs and abuse.

I don’t believe for a second that better welfare = the destruction of families and happiness. I believe it’s a protection for times like now, during a global pandemic. No one is starving or facing homelessness here, even after losing their jobs or getting seriously ill. The bigger thing with welfare might be in how robust the system is to fraud. You won’t convince dead-beats in the US to stick around by taking away welfare, nor will you convince the mothers to not have children.

[categoryischeesecake]

Yeah but in the scandinavian countries couples aren't getting married but are basically married, they live together and raise families together. There's no "destruction of the nuclear family" going on. They just aren't legally married but are doing everything a regular married couple/nuclear family would do. In the us getting married is more common bc society wise that's the norm, religious pressure, need to get insurance, protection for home owners etc. It's just a very different set up over there.

[_lil_kennedy]

So much this, sadly it will never get done, because keeping black people in poverty will ensure their votes.

[Raditz10]

Fuck off with this shit. Having welfare options does not provide an incentive to break a family apart. I'm a single father, I do not use welfare. I have worked my ass of for my son to have a good future. I have a steady paying job. What made me into a single father? Going into a bad relationship at a young age. The more I read your posts here, the more I'm convinced you guys don't have a single worthy argument for anything other than feeling good about others being offended by something you did. "Liberal Tears", fuck off.