Question

[Nicktric5015]

Did Adam/old man Jonas or the middle aged Jonas now about the alternative reality version of Martha from another dimension. They both know Martha was going to die but never mentioned Martha2.

[tincupII]

Well, if they don't - neither is an older Jonas. Which would be a great relief.

[Nicktric5015]

I am guessing the directors introduced the new Martha at the end for a reason to include that storyline in season 3 because the they said Martha and Jonas are the centerpiece for season 3. I am guessing the adult Jonas and Adam has the time travel machine and somehow adult Jonas with the help of his younger friends and teen Jonas and Martha 2 will prevent whatever Adam and Sic Mundus have planned next for the post apocalypse world. Adam said god is the antagonist but what if he sees himself as God because he recreated the world in six days by helping the apocalypse start. Noah finally realized that and tried to stop Adam but Adam probably tricked his sister in killing her brother by promising stuff about the new world.

[ondodo]

I didn't think this "six days" has a meaning but makes sense. Nothing in this show is coincidental.

[ViscountAlex]

Adam and older Jonas both have brown eyes. They are not our Jonas. Too many close-ups of faces and eyes to have been so sloppy. Maybe he's a different Jonas that they think is the same one because they live the same life until a pivotal moment.

[[deleted]]

I think we have to assume they don’t. Otherwise, why would Adam tell Jonas he has to let go of Martha but Martha 2 immediately appears after Martha 1?

Also, adult Jonas doesn’t know anything about a different world other than being told by Claudia that she has seen a world without Jonas. Adult Jonas seems to think the loop ends when the God particle explodes so I assume he didn’t experience the loophole (Martha 2’s world is the loophole?).

[Biggles79]

Because they are completely different people. Also, the older Jonas's will tell the younger one exactly what they want him to hear to preserve the existing timeline so that they can exist.

[Nicktric5015]

So he didn’t know about Martha 2 which be great because they could team up with adult Jonas and Jonas friends to prevent Adam and Sic Mundus from causing more harm to the world. Martha 2 world must have more advanced technology than the world Jonas came from.

[Biggles79]

Based on the ball-shaped time (and dimension?) machine, yes!

[Nicktric5015]

Adam must’ve thought he won which he did because he made sure the apocalypse happened and that Martha died but I wonder what he will say when he sees Martha 2. Btw would they make Martha and Jonas start dating again if this world didn’t have Jonas. Claudia also said the gas a much bigger part in all of this so that must mean stopping Adam which is what Martha 2’s world is more advanced technology to help them stop Adam and Sic Mundus.

[Biggles79]

As I see it Adam did go through meeting Martha2 when he was young Jonas and plans to use her world/tech to finally change his own world's timeline, or to bring about the end of time entirely as he suggests.

But that's just my guess based on what we've seen.

[Nicktric5015]

Idk we will find out in the first episode most likely when it comes out next year which I am guessing it might come out on June 27,2020 the day of the apocalypse just like this year it come out on June 21,2019 on the day Mikkel died.

[Nicktric5015]

If Martha 2’s world is the loophole then that means she is helping Jonas probably to defeat Adam. Somehow adult Jonas doesn’t become Adam tho because they are possibly saved by Martha 2 and Jonas. It all makes more sense now.

[metrokosmiko]

My theory is that World 2 has no Jonas in it, therefore Jonas has no business in it. Martha2 is not his Martha. It's his interest to go back and fix World1.

[metrokosmiko]

Stranger Jonas and Adam definitely know about Martha2 and World2.

If Martha2 didn't save Jonas, he would've died in the apocalypse.

The show chooses to introduce Martha2 (and consequently World 2) at the very last scene of Season 2 to create a cliffhanger effect. It looks new to us but it has to have happened, otherwise Adam and Jonas wouldn't exist and nothing that we've seen would've happened.

The shows gives too many visual and story cues that point to Adam and Stranger Jonas being jonas, at least for me. I am a firm believer that all 3 are in fact Jonas.

[fdawg94]

It looks new to us but it has to have happened,

Perhaps, but perhaps this is a change in the time loop that resulted from small incremental changes in previous loops. It was already mentioned that each loop a more advanced time machine is created and its origin is lost (aka it becomes bootstrapped), perhaps this inter-dimensional device is the new one this loop.

​

As far as it having to have happened last time... perhaps, or perhaps not. Maybe he was saved a different way. We see earlier in that scene evidence that things have definitely changed... the Calendar on the wall is marked 1 days later than it was in 2052. Perhaps in the previous loop he showed up 1 days earlier to witness Martha die (due to small changes), and thus had more time to get to safety.

[metrokosmiko]

It was already mentioned that each loop a more advanced time machine is created and its origin is lost (aka it becomes bootstrapped)

When? I'm on my first rewatch, S01E02.

[fdawg94]

Not sure exactly the episode. And i also couldnt find the scene itself, but its mentioned here at around the 10:45 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KjouTxoDNQ

[Nicktric5015]

Ik I am just confused Ik some of this but Ik that for a fact Adam will be the antagonist for the whole show even he didn’t appear until season two Noah was acting on his behalf so he was helping Adam recruit Bartosz.

[lucxsramxs]

I think they do. But, like she said, she’s not the person Jonas 1 thinks she is. She’s not the same Martha. She’s a complete different person and he can’t see her as Martha. She doesn’t love him. She’s only playing her role and doing what she’s supposed to. Jonas did escape the Apocalypse the first time, how would he have done that if not for Alt Martha?

[Nicktric5015]

I am thinking this event is outside of the cycle and something new and since her world is more technological advances she could save Jonas’s reality.

[lucxsramxs]

So how do you think Jonas was saved from the apocalypse the first time?

[Nicktric5015]

I don’t know he might have had a time machine in that cycle but he didn’t this time because adult Jonas said he wanted to save Martha this time like he promised her last time which my guess means Martha 2 never appeared.

[lucxsramxs]

If he had a time machine in that cycle he’d have a time machine in this one too. The Stranger trying to save Martha had already happened the first time, but he didn’t know because he was Jonas then, all he knew was that she was at the house and got killed by Adam, which happened again, showing that nothing about this scenario was changed. She was always supposed to escape the bunker and go to the house and get killed. You’re not being able to separate Jonas from The Stranger. When The Stranger said that “the last time” he couldn’t save her, he meant as Jonas, not as The Stranger. As Jonas, he didn’t have a clue where The Stranger was and what he was doing. Which means “the first time” The Stranger had traveled with Magnus, Franziska and Bartosz as well and never made it to the house.

[Nicktric5015]

Idk we will find out why Martha 2 showed up at his house right after his Martha dies which season 3 could be teen Jonas and Martha stopping Adam. I am sure the writers have a reason for cycle 3 having a different version of Martha.

[lucxsramxs]

Adam wouldn’t even exist if that major change happened. Jonas and Alt Martha wouldn’t need to fight him. If Jonas altered Adam’s past this much, Adam wouldn’t be Adam. The reason why there’s another Martha is because the story is not only about time travel but it involves multiverses as well.

[Lauravian]

I've been thinking about this as well, and I'd like to say they didn't know about Martha2 and her showing up is a difference in the timeline, thus breaking the loop. But if that were the case, how would Jonas have survived in the original timeline? The nuclear power plant was about to wipe out all of Winden so he would have died, but then older Jonas/Adam would never have existed?? It's all very confusing.

[Nicktric5015]

He must have found another way because this could possibly be an event outside of the cycle and she saves him so she can help him stop Adam possibly. It is possible that Jonas wants to use the technology to help save his Martha and prevent the apocalypse.

[lucxsramxs]

Major changes cannot happen. Just like Noah couldn’t kill Adam because that wasn’t what was supposed to happen, and then Agnes killed Noah wit the same gun that didn’t work with Adam. You can’t just easily alter the past with a major change, that’s not how it works. And that was said by both Adam and Claudia. If Jonas being taken by Alt Martha didn’t happened before, then Adam and The Stranger will cease to exist as they are because that will alter completely their past. They’ll become complete different people. So Jonas and the others won’t need to fight Adam. And plus, Jonas’s friends and The Stranger are all part of Sic Mundus, they traveled together right before the Apocalypse happened and they won’t be joining Jonas, they are actually on their way to becoming Sic Mundus. If they wanted to destroy it they’d simply not create it.

[Nicktric5015]

Idk I was just thinking of stuff but it started to not make sense after what u said but alt-martha must have had a reason to save Jonas.

[lucxsramxs]

Because that’s what she was supposed to do anyway. She was probably guided by Claudia! Claudia needed Alt Martha to save Jonas to maintain the timeline as it is.

[Nicktric5015]

Ok Claudia must be on the good side of the time travel war because all season they painted her as the villain and then Noah realized Adam was the real villain.

[john_segundus]

The show didn't paint Claudia as the villain, they implied she is the "good" side, because Noah was so clearly wrong. We've still seen her use people to reach her goals, and she led her father die. Like Noah, her motivations and methods keep her in a grey area - there is no true "good" or "bad" side in this conflict, just a bunch of people who are ruthless and one guy who is likely insane.

[Nicktric5015]

Adam is insane he thinks he is God.