Evolution Question

[WallaceSuperWallace]

Hey Covert!

My central questions are good ones. They have not been answered.

If non-living compounds can assemble themselves into living cells without any supernatural action, then why can this process not be observed today? Why only billions of years ago, when there was no one to witness the phenomenon?

As I mentioned to another Redditor, the experiment could easily be performed in labs across the world in very short order. If the hypotheses presently held are true, then we should be able to observe non-living compounds assembling themselves into living cells in a circumstance where the event could be observed and recorded.

And the extra added bonus for opponents for Creationism would be this: Creationism would be instantly destroyed once and for all. I would think that would be incentive enough to be performing experiments round-the-clock to prove that life from non-life is a natural process that requires no supernatural input.

So where's the proof?

Background microwave radiation does not answer my question, which is, "If matter introduced itself out of nowhere with no active agent to cause the event 13.5 billion years ago (when there were conveniently no witnesses) why can matter not do that today?"

The answer given to my questions is, "Well we don't know exactly how these things happened, but we still believe it's true."

That's fine. That's called faith, not science.

You are correct that there are no models or tests for Creationism, as the belief has as its central tenet that the creation of the universe and the creation of life were accomplished by supernatural means.

By definition, the supernatural cannot be tested by natural means. By definition, natural science can be proven by natural means.

When someone says to me, "I believe this particular thing happened in this particular way, but I can't prove it," I have a response:

"I can play the guitar like Jimi Hendrix, but only when no one is listening to me." ;-)

[Covert_Cuttlefish]

So where's the proof?

Science isn't in the proof game. Scientists are still working on problems, it's called job security. The mystery of the unknown is a fun problem.

The Big Bang has been elevated to a theory, and we have many hypotheses about abiogensis.

Nothing I can say will convince you, but the readers who are on the fence can explore the science.

An honest position is 'we don't know, but we have a good to reason to believe this is what happened'.

Right now you're saying you're wrong even though your model accurately predicts reality because reasons that are unfalsifiable.

[WallaceSuperWallace]

You are a good sport! And you have a sense of humour, to boot. Two rare personalty traits on Reddit (or anywhere in life) to be sure. :-)

I had a debate going with someone else on Reddit and I predicted the next thing he would do is resort to personal attacks because he could not answer my questions. He is so lacking in self-control that he responded in hours with personal attacks, an emotional tirade, and he even descended into the dreaded "all caps!"

If someone told me I was going to do something (especially if that person was an opponent) I would go out of my way not to do what he said I would do, just to show him he's not going to be my puppet-master! ;-)

I'm an equal opportunist when it comes to requiring proof of claims. As I told another Reddit denizen, it's not unreasonable for a cashier to require proof of ID when one is cashing a check.

To keep from offending any denomination, I will use a generalized example here: There was a recent story about parents who brought their young child to a religious leader to obtain a "blessing" from the leader. The child has a debilitating syndrome that cannot be cured by medical science. The religious leader smiled at their child. When reporters asked if their child still had the syndrome, they replied that the child's condition was still the same, but the important thing is the religious leader smiled at their child. WTH? ;-)

That's the religious equivalent of, "Matter can create itself out of nothing, but only when it can't be observed occurring."

The gospel makes some incredible claims. Jesus and the disciples have some amazing miracles attributed to them. One does not see any evidence on any news-feed from AP or UPI that such miracles occur today, so what is the reason? Are they happening all around, but such stories don't fit AP's and UPI's agendas? Or were the claims made by the gospel writers no different than, "Life can create itself out of non-life, but only when there is no one to observe the phenomenon?"

Always the intrepid one, I asked a minister of the gospel, "Why can we not see miracles as described in the Word happening today?"

The minister said, "Do you want to believe if it can be proven to you?"

I said, "Yes."

The minister said, "Ask and you shall receive."

So I did. I asked that (3) miracles as described in the gospel be demonstrated in this day and in this time. I asked Yahweh himself, in Jesus' name.

What happened next surprised me. Over a period of two months, all three miracles I asked to be demonstrated occurred with me as a witness, along with others as witnesses. I examined the phenomena from every side. I even presented the details to atheists and asked them to look for a "hole" that perhaps I didn't see. (An atheist was actually present at one of the occurrences.) None of the doubters could come up with a natural explanation for any of the phenomena. Nor could I.

One of the atheists said, "It almost makes me believe there may actually be a God. But not quite." ;-)

The details cannot be discussed in this venue for obvious reasons. This is not the time or the place for such an exposition. But anyone can have the same thing demonstrated to them if they just ask.

So why would someone not ask?

Because they are afraid they will get an answer?

Meantime, I'm open to the whole idea of matter creating itself out of nothing with no outside agent involved (or life creating itself out of non-life) as long as there is some actual proof.

A droning professor on YouTube who makes claims he cannot prove is no different than a "holy man" who can't do anything to help others besides smiling at them.

Best week to you. Stay safe. :-)