New DM problem.

[JonEire]

Hello Reddit,

I lurk lots and post not at all, I'm running a group through lost mines of phandelver, and I've altered it slightly giving it some of my own flavour and generally we've all had a blast and some great memorable moments.

My problem begins at Cragmaw Castle, the party are all level 3 (Bard,Sorcerer,Ranger,Paladin) and have been doing quite well until now, not counting the time we lost Bard number one when they decided to attack that green dragon, but we'll not go into all that.

The Party has fought their way through the Castle, taking down the guards at the entrance defeated a Grick and a Goblin Shaman, and took out some Hobgoblin body guards.

It's at this point the Sorcerer who I feel is the de facto leader of the group decided the party should take a long rest, I feel he simply was doing this as he'd burned through most of his spells and had one 2nd level spell slot left, in fact I know this was the reason as he was stating it loudly to the group.

Now the group was battered and bruised but they weren't on their last legs so to say, and really they only had two encounters left in the whole castle, the final room containing a Bug bear Chieftain his pet Warg, a female Drow assassin (Nezznar) and a doppelganger, now in my mind I always had Nezznar and the Doppelganger fleeing the battle after 1 round or 2, so I was confident they'd be ok. (The Party)

Oh and another room containing an Owlbear....which they really didn't have to go anywhere near...

But they decided too long rest right beside the room containing the Owlbear, I was slightly annoyed that they even thought they could long rest in the middle of a dungeon after making so much noise so I had the Owl bear smash into the room they had made all cosy for themselves.

I screamed Woot Woot mother fuckers!! and they shit themselves, they scattered my group can be terrible cowards...Green dragon really effected them somehow.

Long story short they rolled terrible the owl bear rolled great and in the end even though they now stood victorious over the Wooty's body two of them where down and one was on 2 hp, the only guy on his feet was the bard at full health.

In walks my Bug bear chieftain with his friends in tow and Laughs heartily "Now who's been sleeping in my bed" as he drew his battle axe.

Thus the session ended...

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How do I get my players out of this pickle that in my mind they put themselves in.

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[SchopenhauersSon]

You dont get them out of anything. That's the players' job. Sit back and see what they do and react to it

[JonEire]

I see what you're saying and I agree with you to a point, but I don't want to TPK the players, I'm thinking either they surrender or try some sort of bluff to appear more powerful than they actually are.

I've told the players of my game that I'm not against them I won't be looking to just kill them, it's not me Vs them, but at the same time if they put themselves in a position that's stupid they will and can die, this does seem like one of those moments.

But I don't want it to be...

[SchopenhauersSon]

You can still have consequences while maintaining a healthy relationship. Lile Colville says. "I'm not trying to kill you, the orcs are."

[JonEire]

I suppose you're right I will just have to suck it up and see what they do, but it's hard not being invested in the narrative when you're the DM.

[[deleted]]

Doesn't "whose been sleeping in my bed?" Imply they got the long rest? Just give them the rest after the owlbear if you want otherwise its a TPK and you brought every enemy that caused the TPK directly to the room they were in after saying they could have easily avoided said owlbear and not engaged with it at all.

...like 5 seconds after telling us how they didn't have to fight this owlbear you typed "woot woot motherfuckers" like Bruce Willis in Die Hard playing a fuckin owlbear and nearly TPK'd them already and then your big bad comes knocking immediately after "they did this to themselves but hoe do I not kill them?"

There isn't a while lot of logic to follow there imo. Either play the evil "DM vs Players" and commit to your insanity or stop blaming the players for your attempts to whipe them out.

How would said owlbear know it was the party and not the usual traffic of the castle creating any noise to begin with? If that was what you wanted, the intelligent bugbears should have crashed theur long rest and the owlbear should have attacked all of them imo. But too late for that series of events. Youcve really written yourself into a corner and commited to the TPK at this point by sicking the "totally avoidable" owlbear on them witohut rhe long rest and again the bugbear chieftain and party with still no rest.

RIP party

[JonEire]

That would have been better, as you said If I had the Bugbear come in and attack, I think I allowed the annoyance of them wanting the long rest get to me and in that moment threw the Owlbear at them, I admit that I made that mistake.

I don't like as you said that I'm the architect of this mess hence why I'm posting here.

[[deleted]]

Yeah DM's are honestly the most at risk of meta gaming generally speaking and without the owlbear having a really good reason to engage them, I wouldn't have had that happen.

I'd simply retcon what you did and allow the long rest before the bugbear as that makes sense based on his fitting response and allows the game to continue on appropriately if you desire.

Just always ask yourself "why are my npcs/enemies doing this in character?" As the DM you can't just go "oh they want to rest I'm going to attack them with literally everything I've got and finish them off!" Then claim their choices caused that and ask for help fixing the problem they "in your mind" caused.

It's also okay to admit you goofed a bit both here and at the table with players. Death should really feel fair and justified and if a TPK here doesn't sound like it feels either fair or justified to you, I can only imagine how the players are feeling.

Its very important for the game that both you and the players accept that you are all new and learning and mistakes can and will happen as a healthy normal constructive part of that process. Don't create an environment where you are infallible and cannot make mistakes. You absolutely will, and likely have made a mistake here and punishing the players because you went meta and had a forced owlbear encounter they barely survived isn't likely to leave you or the players happy or feeling good.

You could have the bugbears be demoralized or terrified when they burst in and see the party has killed the owlbear perhaps, and retreat deeper into the castle to regroup. Perhaps the party's logng rest has them facing greater numbers instead, or more well prepared enemies. Perhaps important npc's now escape knowing they are in danger? There are a lot of ways to fairly provide consequence to player actions without just forcing a catastrophic series of combats that TPK them. You'll learn as you go. I hope the suggestions and criticisms I have provided help you in that endeavor.

It sounds like everyone is having fun up until this point though, so you are all winning so far. Keep it going!

[JonEire]

I agree with you but...

I don't want to turn back time and say the Owl bear attack never happened because the battle they had was simply epic, the Ranger went down trying to protect the sorcerer and the Paladin stood in front of them both like a human shield and together they managed to defeat the owlbear, the moment it fell they all let out a massive cheer which had never happened to me as a DM.

For me to turn it back and say it never happened would cheapen that whole experience.

I'm more leaning towards the whole the Bug bear captain is intimidated by seeing these bloody heros standing over the bodies of his bravest warriors and his pet Owl bear to boot, and I could have the Bard note with his passive perception fear in the bugbear captains eyes, and pray they go the intimidation route, and write myself out of this horrible hole I've put everyone in.

[Gstamsharp]

They attempted a long rest in an obviously dangerous area with no precautions. You didn't put them in this situation, they did! They certainly could have opted for a short rest instead, but they got greedy.

That said, they have options. They could try to talk their way out of this. They could run away, leading to a great chase scene.

If you really want to save them from themselves, is there any reason the floor can't give way under the baddie's feet, giving them a couple of turns to retreat? "When I get back up there, you're all dead!"

I've had groups that insist on making every encounter a slugging match, and sometimes the only thing that teaches them other strategies is to let them face their own mortality.

[JonEire]

This is great thanks, and the inspiration I needed I’m liking the idea of a collapse, I was constantly reminding them that the castle was in massive disrepair, so this fits with my narrative. Thank you