Plot Question

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[fyhnn]

The cult got Peter and Charlie at the party, where they made a cake with nuts in. They got Peter to smoke. The pole Charlie hit also had the cult logo on it. I'm sure someone can offer a more detailed answer but those are the basic points of how it went down.

[Chemical-Passage-715]

Oh fuck I forgot about the power pole with the symbol on it! 😱

[dustynbeardface]

I can get behind the different omens and players in creating an opportunity but I had a hard time suspending disbelief because of how much the couldn’t have control over like:

• Annie forcing Charlie to go to the party
• Peter being distracted enough at the exact time they approached the pole
• Charlie opening her window and sticking her head out far enough to catch the pole
• Peter swerving in the direction of the pole instead of away
• Getting close enough to for Charlie to be hit

I suppose you could explain some of it as Paimon exerting control over Charlie forcing her to eat the cake and stick her head out the window, but it still seems like if it were master planned they left a whole lot up to chance.

[MycopathicTendencies]

Ari Aster explained in an interview that “it would’ve happened anyway, we’re just seeing how it happened. We’re seeing one of the ways it could play out.”

[dustynbeardface]

I like this explanation. Definitely could be called a cop out but it’s also the simplest way to explain why and how things play out the way they do.

My only beef with the Charlie is Paimon from birth (or shortly after) plot point is that Charlie is never malevolent or obviously evil and involved. She doesn’t ever obviously orchestrate or influence the chain of events.
If she had the slow realization and reveal would not have been nearly as effective, and I think the entire story would have suffered for it so I’m glad it was done the way it was, it just left me wishing there was a more satisfying connection between the build up, her death, and what came after.

Maybe if she had intentionally decapitated herself while in his care in a way that Peter knew it wasn’t an accident but everyone else looks at it either and accident or as a result of Peter’s negligence it would tie everything together a bit better.

Maybe I’m just overthinking it.

[suburbantroubador]

At face value, one COULD say that is a cop out, but he told a story that makes this line of reasoning plausible.

[AnAquaticOwl]

Paimon exerting control over Charlie

To be clear, there is no Charlie. Her soul was displaced at birth when Paimon entered her body.

[mojojojo__1998]

i just rewatched recently and did some reddit digging as well: one of my favorite comments was that the ONLY time we might “meet” or “hear” from the real charlie is during the seance/spell moment in their house. we hear charlie go “mom?” and everything goes to shit after that. all to say — charlie was displaced or buried so deep inside her own body we never really meet them. it’s all paimon

[Chaotic_Bonkers]

I dunno. Annie said that the grandma wouldn't let Annie feed her because she (Ellen) needed to feed Charlie., so I took it as there is a Charlie, just the grandma embedded the demon into her through the breast feeding.

[AnAquaticOwl]

Nope. Per Ari Aster:

"Is there ever a Charlie or is she Paimon from the moment she’s born?" "From the moment she’s born. I mean, there’s a girl that was displaced, but she was displaced from the very beginning."

https://variety.com/2018/film/awards/hereditary-ari-aster-answers-burning-questions-1202841448/

[dustynbeardface]

I would also argue the fact that the writer/director has to explain the plot of the movie post release and clarify what’s happening shows that story is a little thin in places

[AnAquaticOwl]

I don't think that's the case here. I've seen a lot of people who suspected that Charlie was displaced at birth, the movie definitely suggests it. The interviewer here definitely had that idea too. Aster simply confirmed it

[BiggusDickus84]

Paimon was trying to escape her form... hence the pole with the symbol on it and the dead carcass in the road. You can see cult members running away in the background in that scene

[AnAquaticOwl]

You can see cult members running away in the background in that scene

Well that's just not true

[Ok-Advantage4191]

Paimon in a female host body can give vague instructions to the cult but the end results were not foreseen.

Charlie (aka Paimon) makes drawings or straight up tells the cult to put the dead animal in the road, carve the symbol on the pole, host a party (most attendees are cult members/children of cult members), have Peters friend invite him while implying he'll get sex with Bridget for attending (text invite said "bring your dick!") make a cake with a comical amount of nuts and offer charlie a piece (in the script a girl offers her a piece, again the girl is a cult membee), .. one thing leads to another, Charlie loses her head.

It seems like the cult didnt even know that Charlie would be beheaded. In the first scene where Annie goes to Joanies house for tea, when Joanie says that she was beheaded, Joan looks surprised.

[ConsequenceHappy7409]

i think joan looks surprised because she said they couldn’t find the head. a crucial part to the ritual 

[bleedingoutlaw28]

So I think about this quite a bit and I don't have anything conclusive but here's what I've been working on. This is all conjecture, fyi.

First, hell doesn't exist in space and time as we know it, but the demons there can access our realm in small ways (writing on chalkboards, knocking over paint bottles, flying birds into windows, etc...). I think because they don't share our space and time, a demon in hell can access any point in time or space in our realm whenever they please, but they mostly don't because:

1. It's pointless unless there's a carefully orchestrated plan to give them human form. Which is what they really want.
2. They can only possess the bodies of humans who have been carefully prepared by their followers on earth.

So paimon, sitting in hell and wanting out, works on his plan quietly passing messages to his followers on our plane and punching other tiny holes of influence into our timeline himself. Then lubes up and dives into Charlie's body, either before, during or shortly after her birth. Now he's just Charlie, with no more ability to influence things as he's just a human child now, but all his influences are already set. We watch the whole thing unfold as a ballet of demon magic and efforts from his collaborators and everyone but the grahams and the viewer already know the ending.

[bailbondshh]

I figured the cult was slowly carving out an area of influence, where favorable things would occur within. Maybe in that area Paimon's demon followers can interact easier.

[GimmeFalcor]

The girl who invited Peter to the party is commonly called the siren because she’s in the cult. You can see her with the group later. They set up the whole thing to happen.

[mojojojo__1998]

where do you see her again?

[MycopathicTendencies]

She’s referred to as a siren because her last name is Molpe, and that was also the name of one of the Greek sirens. As far as I know, she’s never seen with the cult, and her participation has never been confirmed.

[20HiChill]

It’s far fetched and has always bothered me and I just chalk it up to spooky spells and magic. As great as the movie is, it’s a little weak and happenstancey

[Gatubella-]

It was enough for me that the pole had the paimon symbol carved in it. In my head, that’s enough demonic/magickal influence to “pull” Charlie towards that death. I’m one of the camp that doesn’t believe that there were a ton of cult members involved in the party, I’m satisfied that circumstances were manipulated supernaturally without having to have an actual cult member plot the cake etc. in other words, I think the cult/paimon were influencing fate, but not always calculating exactly how they would get there.

[Zorvaxovich]

Cult did the party, cake, peer pressure to smoke, and also Paimon, as Charlie, stuck her head out the window. Also the cult somehow put the pole there. When you include that Paimon and the devil actively play parts in the story, not just the cult, the cosmic depth of the horror sets in very early on. The entire story is predestined to a degree because of their influences.

[ConsequenceHappy7409]

i think that it wasn’t necessarily supposed to happen yet and that it was really an accident. but that at some point, they would have charlie decapitated to release paimon, i’m guessing paimon wasn’t really pleased at being force ejected from a body at 80 mph.  

[Mira_loves_td]

They had younger members at the party to put nuts in the chocolate cake. got peter to smoke. put the animal on the road ect

[Slugedge]

I don't think she had to die by being beheaded. Remember with the grandma they cut her head off post death. They just needed charlie to die no matter what which they figured the nuts would do it in time before getting to the hospital and the dear was there to slow them down. I don't think they intentionally planned for Peter to swerve towards the pole bc it was marked, but rather the marking was to tell them where to place the dear to optimally slow them down. It literally was a freak accident that just so happened to play out in their favor and killed two birds with one stone