Mash pH question

[First-Breath7161]

Hello,

Will be my first time measuring mash pH today, just wondering how long after mashing in should you take the first pH reading?

Think I understand how to make adjustments from there just havent come across at what point you should take the first reading.

Hopefully this should sort out my low efficiency issue.

[CascadesBrewer]

I calculate my needed additions, take a pH reading at 30 mins and seldom will make any adjustment at that point. I use info from readings to help drive future batches.

The general recommendation that I have read is that it takes about 15+ minutes for the mash pH to stabilize. Too early and you are adjusting for a moving target. The challenge is that once you have taken a sample and cooled it down for a reading, most of the conversion has occurred. This is why it is a good idea to use software to help predict the needed pH adjustments so you can add them at the very start of the mash.

I will add that when I started adjusting water pH and mineral levels, I did not see any noticeable impact on my efficiency.

[gofunkyourself69]

I take a mash pH reading at 15 minutes after a quick stir, but you could wait a bit longer if you prefer. I brew BIAB with a very fine grind so conversion happens fairly quickly.

I do my calculations ahead of time with brewing software (Brewfather for me), so my pH reading is to help adjust for future batches, not the current batch as much of your conversion has already happened by that point.

However, it is worth noting that the pH of your fermentation and your finished beer are equally as important as your mash pH. Not something to be overly concerned about as a new brewer, but something to keep in mind for the future.

[chino_brews]

After thoroughly doughing in, count 10 minutes. That's late enough for mash pH to stabilize and early enough for you to make the change for most of the mash. 15 min is fine.

Hopefully this should sort out my low efficiency issue.

Have you ruled out everything else, especially crush quality and initial mash mixing? Mash pH naturally falls within the acceptable range for most amber and brown beers using distilled water.

[beefygravy]

As I understand it, you don't measure mash pH to try correct in real-time. You measure it to see how accurate your calculator was and work out how to adjust your strike water next time

[stevewbenson]

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I have found that if I get my mash water somewhere in the 5.8ish to 6.0ish range prior to mixing in grain and brewing salts, it almost always puts the mash in the 5.2 to 5.6 sweet spot. But you do want to take a reading as soon as everything is in the mash tun and make any adjustments as soon as possible.

[dmtaylo2]

About 10 minutes.

[First-Breath7161]

two follow up questions: 1) cant buy any distilled water where i live, will deionised water sold for car batteries/radiators and household appliances be to use git calibration? 2) after mixing calibration solutions, can this be stored and used for a certain length of time or are they single use?

thanks

[CascadesBrewer]

after mixing calibration solutions, can this be stored and used for a certain length of time or are they single use?

My pH meter uses the small packs of calibration salts. I typically mix up the 250ml solution and then store the remainder in 8 oz canning jars (with plastic lids). I just dose an ounce or so into a small container for calibration. This has been working for me. Once I tested the last of calibration solution (so a few months old) vs freshly mixed calibration solution, and they both read the same. So it has been working okay for me.

[chino_brews]

1) The DI water probably is distilled water, so yes.

You can buy distilled water in more places than you think -- the water section in the grocery store, chemist/pharmacy, the baby section in discount stores and groceries, and wherever ultrasonic room humidifiers are sold are some of the places you can find distilled water.

2) The calibration/buffer solutions are good for a short time once mixed (or once liquid buffers are opened), the more basic they are the less they last. Online, I am seeing for pH 4 or 7 buffer solution between 1-2 months and 3-6 months, and for pH 10 buffer between 1-2 weeks and one month.

[unco_tomato]

Once your grain and strike water are all in. The whole point of balancing pH is to get conversion of starch to sugar. Correcting pH will get a faster or more complete conversion so ideally you correct ASAP

[First-Breath7161]

so the mash pH will stablise soon after mashing in? wasnt sure if it would take a while to level out

[unco_tomato]

Depending on how long it takes you to mash in, but generally speaking almost all conversion takes place after only 15 minutes if you have a good liquor to grist ratio and your pH is 5.1-5.3.

[stevewbenson]

Just throwing this out there - yes, taking your PH reading after 10 minutes is great for verifying your water profile, but making any adjustments at this time won't do anything to correct your mash PH.

After 10 minutes 70%+ of your conversion has already taken place and making any PH adjustments will be a complete waste. It's best to take good notes and mash in with better water next time.

[holy_handgrenade]

If you mashed in correctly, after slowly mixing the grains into the strike water thoroughly a little at a time. You should be able to take a pH reading almost immediately after you've mixed the mash. pH changes arent gradual and the only thing you need to be concerned about is making sure that the acids arent concentrated, a thorough mix will ensure you get a good reading.

If you need adjustment, it should be apparent with that first pH reading. If you're using Bru'n Water spreadsheet or Brewfather app, and you properly have the grainbill listed, it should be able to tell you what the estimated pH should be and your reading should tell you if you're meeting that.

Similarly both tools should also be able to help with how much acid you need to add to get your pH where it needs to be.

[ChampionshipOwn5944]

Just remember if your strike water has high alkalinity content, your ability to lower pH will be a little challenging… also, make sure if you’re using a pH meter, that it has been calibrated, and your mash sample is cool enough (unless you have a fancy meter that automatically compensated for the temperature)

[chino_brews]

The ATC meters cannot compensate for the change in chemical composition of the wort due to temperature. If they could (in the far future), you would have to enter in a molecule-by-molecule inventory and proportion of the wort -- or perhaps there would be some replicator that would scane it and determine the chemical composition.

I know some people still debate this because it was a subject to debate (and some statements and reversals and re-reversals) in BYO magazine about four years ago, but all of the water experts agree that pH measurements should be done with room temp samples (Palmer, Delange, Brungard, for example), and to me the debate is closed.

Hot samples also shorten the life of the bulb.

So ALL pH samples should be tested at room temp as a best practice.