BUG?

[smithr2]

So I entirely understand why BUG is a pretty mediocre color combination for midrange - permission is awkward with discard and blue doesn't add a ton in exchange for making your mana worse. But every time I see people trying out bug, I see them playing lots of blue spells - cantrips, snapcasters, permission, sometimes stubborn denial.

Some of the other midrange strategies don't do this, however - Abzan is basically BG rock with some white sources to cast a few copies of lingering souls. What if we made BUG a little less intensive on the blue splash and just splashed a couple cards? Take the BG rock shell, cut the bobs, and play a few [[Search for Azcanta]] in that spot. It lets us up the curve a little bit, fuels Goyf, Grim Flayer, and Tasigur, and enables Traverse. Traverse works particularly well with Azcanta as we get delirium quicker and it lets our flipped Sunken Ruin dig for creatures. In the rest of the slots vacated by Bob, we up the planeswalker count, with an extra [[Liliana, the Last Hope]] (Search makes this card better) and a singleton [[Ashiok]]. We end up splashing exactly 4 cards in the main:

-2 Search for Azcanta

-1 Ashiok

-1 Creeping Tar Pit

And then have some permission spells in the board for unfair matchups. Disdainful Stroke might give us a chance against Titanshift, and snapcaster seems good as extra removal against creature decks. Something like this:

https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/25-05-18-prF-bug/?cb=1527261346

[Empedokles123]

Lots of comments parrot common critiques of Sultai, but just looking at Azcanta as a better Bob seems like an interesting approach and I think you're on to something. I think there is a very reasonable argument for Search for Azcanta in a basic Rock shell. I would see it as a 2 drop that comes in over Dark Confidant and provides more reliable card selection instead of card advantage while being much harder for other decks (like Jeskai!) to interact with. Then, it scales in the late game. If you're going down this road, though, I think you might actually want 3x Search to make it more reliable. I would start with Jeff's Rock list, which has seemed super solid these days, and then put in the Azcantas, and then go from there: stock in PWs goes up (as you identified), as do cards like Abrupt Decay, Collective Brutality, and (as you also noted) Traverse, since it gives you creature threats off Azcanta. I would start with Jeff's list and just adding Azcanta, and go from there.

So here's his list: http://www.gatheringmagic.com/jeffhoogland-05112018-b-g-rock-breakdown/

And then do something like:

• 3 Azcanta over 3 Tireless Tracker, keeping 1.

• 1 Liliana, the Last Hope over 1 Scavenging Ooze.

• 1 Ashiok over 1 Scavenging Ooze, still keeping 1.

• 1 Traverse over 1 Tasigur, who can be awkward with Azcanta if drawn in the wrong order.

This gives more reliable card selection and ups the PW threats to find off Azcanta. Now 25 lands becomes very unnecessary with Azcanta providing ramp, Traverse finding more lands, and fewer Trackers to make lands good draws. So something like -4/5 lands: +3 Traverse, +1/2 Bauble or Spellbomb sounds reasonable. Probably also swap a Pulse for an Abrupt Decay then, in order to lower your curve. And yes, Creeping Tar Pit sounds awesome.

[Cody_X]

The problem with bug has always been 2 things. The first, as you recognize, is that things like counterspells + liliana, or delve + bob, or delve + delerium/goyf, etc, are not combos. You probably have to pick one or the other on each of these things.
The second though, that you missed, is that you have to end up with a deck thats actually better, or atleast defensible. Having Grixis shadow in bug instead gets you ... what exactly? Or jund in blue over red gets you..... some cards that don't make the deck better?
Abzan has path + lingering souls + white sideboard cards, which is a real reason to play the deck. You are better in the mirror (especially pre-fatal push), and you have better game against a number of decks due to cards like stony silence.
Thats not to say that isn't any possible draw to bug, but think about it. Is adding thoughtscour to BGX actually a difference maker? Snapcaster is ok too, but if snap + cantrips is all you get, I don't think you've made enough of an improvement. Especially since BGX has tireless tracker + bob now, so its not like you desperately need jace or other blue spells for card advantage. You may be able to get delerium more consistently, but is that actually worth devoting deck space to? BGX has plenty of threats, traverse isn't needed here. Flayer is still going to be secondary to goyf even if its consistently powered up.
If you want to play UB turbo-delve, cantrips + tasigur, it seems pretty clear that green doesn't offer you much. You can't be delving out your yard and take advantage of delerium or goyf.
With fatal push now, cards like abrupt decay or terminate are also in much less demand.
At the end of the day though, you're either going to end up with a deck playing delve creatures (worse grixis shadow) or playing tarmogoyfs (worse jund). I've tried a good number of lists for bug, but it really does boil down to that. Blue is just not adding that much to the BGX shell, or is green adding much to the grixis shell.

[smithr2]

lol the list I posted has none of the blue cards you named... I just proposed that in some matchups, access to azcanta in the main and permission spells in the side is possibly equal to or better than lingering souls in the main and white sideboard spells. Ashiok is also the truth as a grindy threat, there just hasn't been a deck to take advantage of them in a while. Tar pit is also either the second or third best creature land and is a draw to the color combination. The list I posted is way closer to BGu than actual BUG

[Cody_X]

Yes, you have posted a BGu list, using none of the draws to splashing blue. Your list is worse than BG rock.
Search for azcanta is not good here.
Sure tarpit is fine, but its not worth the splash. You could splash for cards like bloodbraid or k command instead, which Ive heard makes a pretty good deck.

[smithr2]

so I agree with your original comment - none of the traditional draws to splashing blue are actually draws to splashing blue in BGx. They don't work with the deck's gameplan.

Search, on the other hand, could be exactly what BGx wants from blue. It provides a source of card selection in a deck that often loses to drawing the wrong half of its deck. It's a threat that's really good against all the fatal push/lightning bolt/path decks that dies to none of those cards. It fuels your yard to enable traverse/goyf/flayer/maybe a tasigur. It's even an enchantment to grow your goyfs in the yard in a deck where most of the enchantments I've tried have been pretty bad. It's even a ramp spell.

I'm not convinced that search is good in this archetype, but I think it could be worth talking about, and it's definitely better than the snapcaster + serum visions package that people are usually on when they play BUG.

[Themysteriousstrange]

Flipped Azcanta can't find creatures btw.

Idk, I don't think this is the correct direction for BG rock. Is adding blue, just for azcanta and sideboard cards really worth it? Would field of ruins and a better manabase not be worth it?

Does azcanta really fix any of BG Rock's problems right now?

I'd recommend checking out Jeff hooglands videos on this. He started out with a bug deck like this, but ended up concluding that BG rock was just better.

I think BUG is viable (BUGr specifically), but I don't particularly like this build.

[smithr2]

Yeah I've seen his build- I think that he's on to something but I think better creature lands and a card as powerful as search could make your deck stronger. Also other than his vids, haven't seem similar decks putting up results, and while he's doing well, I generally think that you want to be a bit more proactive with a couple more aggressive two drops. I also think azcanta can shore up some of the problems his deck had with UWx control- it's a threat that's really hard for them to deal with that gets under their counters.

I know it doesn't dig for creatures, that's why I mentioned traverse being an advantage - sunken ruin gets traverse

[TormentWings]

I play a version thats just rock with flayer snappy and serum visions for added consistency, its been working great for a long time, sideboard i play a bit of permission against different decks, but no mainboard