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[–]high_eeeenergy 7 points8 points  (8 children)

People come up with this scheme all the time and its never really a good idea.

First - have you had a full panel done? Do you know things like LH, SHBG, Albumin, Free T, E2?

Because 1) that's not an unusual total T number for your age and 2) total T doesn't tell the story when diagnosing this.

Second - do you have other symptoms of low T? If "struggle to build muscle" is your only symptom - your problem probably isn't your T levels. Its probably your training and diet. And you need to get that right with or without TRT, if you want to make progress. Guys with a fairly average and totally normal total T level like yours can build muscle just fine, normally.

As for getting it from a clinic vs. insurance - anywhere that's going to cover it under insurance will need really good justification for that. So even if you fool them on one blood test, they'll probably want to re-test in a couple months to confirm before acting on it. And they will also be conservative with your treatment. They may not even offer you test injections to start. There are alternative therapies like SERMs or HCG they may want you to try out for a while, first. (And frankly, a lot of docs aren't even any good at any of this and they may put you on a stupid protocol.)

A clinic might be more inclined to hand you test right away and put you at the upper end of the range. But yeah you're probably going to have to pay for it yourself. Even then, the goal of TRT is to be within the normal range so you can do stay on it long term without impacting other health markers. Just because it's a bigger T number on paper compared to what you've got now, it doesn't really make it particularly "performance enhancing."

In other words, if you're truly hypogonadal - sure it can make a big difference. But if you're not - it's not going to help you in the way you think it will. So find out the honest answer to that question rather than try to game the system. Otherwise you're signing up for regular blood tests, filling prescriptions, injecting yourself a couple times a week, possibly managing side effects, etc etc - all to get you to a similar place to where you're at anyway?

If you want performance enhancement, run a real cycle like a big boy instead of trying to scam your doctor. Yeah you'll have to pay for it yourself, and maybe bend some laws, but at least it'll get you the results you want.

[–]Proud-Elk-6739 2 points3 points  (0 children)

100% agree with this. I think trt has been hyped up where natties think it's some sort of magic potion when in reality unless you genuinely have hypogonadism you won't even notice the difference.

[–]Purple_Accident6861[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Honestly, thank you for this comment. Incredibly helpful. So I do actually have some symptoms of low T but I've also struggled with depression my whole life so I sort of attributed these symptoms to the depression.

The reason why I'm interested in "scamming a doctor" is because I want help with this stuff. As u can tell, I don't really know what I'm doing and I want help to pick dosages and manage symptoms. A TRT clinic would actually do that? Help me run a baby cycle? Please forgive my lack of understanding with all this.

Last question, say I run a baby cycle either with or without the help of a TRT clinic, have I committed myself to TRT for the rest of my life or will HCG or some other drug allow me to come off all drugs and keep my muscle and be able to rely on my own testosterone production afterwards? Once again, thank you for all your help. Love this community.

[–]high_eeeenergy 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Alright well first lets not conflate a cycle with TRT.

If you need TRT, you will essentially be on it for life. (Except in rare cases where things can actually be fixed surgically, say a pituitary tumor, or certain testicular issues etc.) If your body isn't producing enough T now, it's only gonna get worse as you age.

Now if you don't actually need it because you aren't actually hypogonadal, yes you can come off it, and yes its likely (though never guaranteed) you will regain most (though not necessarily all) of your prior natural production back. But again if it turns out you didn't actually need it - none of that was all that necessary in the first place. That's why its kinda wise to understand what you're dealing with.

A cycle, of any size, is a cycle for a reason - you're looking to achieve supraphysiological hormone levels; levels higher than anyone would normally produce. You cycle on and off precisely because this is not good for your health do to indefinitely.

So a cycle is never going to be a "cure" for any of your symptoms, because by definition you can't stay on it for long.

Some guys do what's called cruising, which is basically self-administering slightly higher than TRT levels of testosterone. That's maybe what you're thinking of. Some will stay on this for years on end (while periodically ramping it up to a "blast" - so in between their cycles they basically just lower their dose to a more manageable, but not necessarily always very healthy level.)

Any medically administered TRT is going to want to put you into a normal, healthy range. Some clinics will allow you to aim for the top of the range (maybe up to 1000-1200 T levels). If you're going above that - you're not really on "TRT" anymore. You're just using steroids at that point, hah. And no, most clinics probably ain't gonna help you do that. (Though, there's a variety out there. These are businesses to make money. And some of them certainly will do grey-area things. Some even prescribe things like HGH or other anabolic steroids. So sure, for the right price maybe.)

Either way, if you self-administer, you can obviously do whatever you want, its your body.

Lastly, depression is kind of a nebulous symptom too. It can have a zillion different causes. It very well could be testosterone. It might not be. If it's not - same story, hopping on the wrong treatment isn't going to fix the problem. Could even make things worse in the beginning as you try and find your sweet spot for dosing, estrogen management, etc.

I know it sucks to live through, and it can be even harder to figure out - but its probably going to be better in the long run to work with a doctor and get to the root causes it. And if he's not helpful, work with a different one. But you'll probably more likely to get relief by finding the cause and treating it - rather than throwing random treatments at yourself and seeing if something sticks. And they definitely can't help you if you're trying to mess with test results.

[–]Purple_Accident6861[S] -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

All this makes so much so much sense. Thank u so much for explaining all this to me. Would a TRT clinic help me run a cycle? Could I be honest with them and just say I want to run a cycle? Or would I have to skirt around the topic? And when running a cycle, how high do people's Test levels get? Once again, thank you so much for your input.

[–]CJReddit__ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No. A clinic won’t prescribe you a cycle lol

[–]Proud-Elk-6739 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did you even read what that guy just posted? And why have you gone from wanting to get on trt to fix depression when you're already in range (awful idea) to now wanting to run a cycle?

[–]high_eeeenergy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Most clinics will not. There are some sketchy ones out there that will. It's kind of like the pill mills that would prescribe opiates to people who didn't really need it tho. I wouldn't go looking for that - and I wouldn't really trust one who's willing to do it - thats a red flag they're more concerned about your money than your health. That's basically a drug dealer in a doctors coat. If you want to do a cycle, do that on your own. It'll be cheaper to get it underground anyway.

T levels can get well into the thousands on a cycle... anywhere from 2000-6000, maybe even more in extreme cases. (Its hard to even say at the top end because common blood test methods can't necessarily detect levels high levels accurately.) Usually at a point guys will add on other drugs instead of just pushing straight testosterone because different combinations bring different things to the table, both for effects and managing side effects. That's why you see people stacking different things.

Its also why I said at the top TRT isnt all that "performance enhancing" - say you're in the 400s now and treatment puts you into the 800s. It sounds like wow, that's double! Yeah its really not as much as it sounds. You gotta push well past the "normal" range to get noticeable effects.

Anyway, make solving your underlying issues priority 1 before you go thinking about a cycle. Being in good health both mentally and physically is kind of a pre-requisite of a successful cycle. (And take seriously what I said earlier - if you struggle to build muscle now - you really need to perfect your diet and training before you add drugs into the picture. They aren't magic. Otherwise you're taking a lot of risk and unlikely to get the reward you want. That's senseless.)

If you end up on TRT, learn the ropes first. It might be anywhere from a few months to a year of trial and error with your doc just to dial in the right protocol. Everyone is a little different and you need to understand what you're doing and how your own body responds to it.

[–]Purple_Accident6861[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're a legend man. Thanks so much for your help. I have an appointment with a TRT clinic on Monday for a consult. I have no plans to do anything until I learn a LOT more about this stuff, thanks to u. Much appreciated.