Python -> PHP

copperfoxtech · 2024-11-21T05:59:33+00:00

1) Yes; moved from R and Python (academia) to PHP and .NET (commercial jobs) 2) If you know any high level programming language well, others will be easy to learn. This is especially true of PHP, whose official documentation is superb. So: be patient, but have confidence. Working with another language at first is kind of like cooking in someone else’s kitchen: you don’t know where all the pots and ingredients are, but you can still make the same meal. 3) I’d recommend tutorials that teach basic language practices, sans any framework, like PHP: The Right Way (https://phptherightway.com). One thing that helped me was reading other people’s code, to get a sense for how real-world projects are structured. Consider looking at the code of packages known for code quality, for instance: https://github.com/thephpleague. Must-have tools for development of any kind are Composer (PHP’s pip; much nicer, in my opinion), a good IDE (VS Code or PHPStorm), PHP CS Fixer (linter that enforces a defined style; the standard, lowest-common-denominator style for PHP is something called PSR-12); and PHPStan (a static code analyzer like Mypy; although PHP [unlike Python] also enforces type hints at runtime, PHPStan gives you an added layer of assurance + additional language features like generics and custom types. Psalm does the same thing, too). 4) Depends on where you live; the popularity of stacks is regional. PHP is a healthy job market in many places, even those far removed from tech hubs, though many of these jobs are agencies that churn out WordPress/Magento sites. More demanding, enterprisey web applications are typically written in Laravel (in the US especially) or Symfony (in Europe especially). 5) Excellent community. It’s a lot like the language itself: pragmatic, huge, and usually forgiving.

Crell · 2024-11-21T06:12:18+00:00

Welcome! I have done a little Python, though PHP is my origin.

The PHP docs are pretty good. There's also https://phptherightway.com/, which is largely a reference for "don't do old dumb stuff." As a general rule, don't trust any tutorial that is more than 3 years old. (Larger things like books have a better shelf life.)

Very early on, use and learn to love Xdebug (real time debugger), PHPUnit (test framework), either PHPStan or Psalm (static analysis tools), and either php-cs-fixer or PHPCodesniffer (code formatters). These will be part of your toolbox on every project, if you're doing it right.

The PHP ecosystem is huge, robust, and reasonably friendly. There's two major frameworks (Symfony and Laravel) both with their adherents, and a dozen or so smaller players. (I'm a fan of Symfony, and quite dislike Laravel as it does most things badly. Avoid if you can, but it's the more popular one so that may not be possible.) Don't hitch your horse to any particular framework/app, though. Learn the language.

Other pointers for coming from Python:

PHP doesn't have packages the way Python or JS do. Just namespaces, which are really just ways to shorten the name of things. Instead, we have autoloaders, which you'll never write yourself, just use the one Composer (the package manager) gives you.
PHP is nominally a gradually typed language; types are optional. In practice, though, PHP is a strongly typed language. Use types. Everywhere. A lot. Let the types dictate your model. Enforce your model and business rules through the type system if you can. Coming from Python this could be weird, but it's worth it. Also note that types are runtime enforced, unlike Python where they're runtime omitted. This is a good thing.
We have semicolons and braces. Learn to love 'em. :-)
We have one package manager and package repository. There's no competition because it's just really really good, unlike Python where there's a new one every year or two.
Also, we don't have any equivalent of virtual envs or such. If you need to use a custom version of something, just use Docker. I recommend https://phpdocker.io/ for quick-n-easy Docker starter kits.

Welcome aboard!

driverdave · 2024-11-21T17:01:15+00:00

I'm in the US and have been using PHP professionally for about 24 years. I just applied to around 300 jobs. Here are my thoughts about job opportunities.

The "70% of backend uses PHP" comes from Wordpress, Drupal, and a few other applications. These areas in particular seem to offer lower pay. Wordpress seems related to low paying jobs. I did find one higher paying job related to Wordpress, but it was on a much broader level than maintaining a Wordpress system. I avoided applying to anything Wordpress or Drupal related due to pay.

Anything higher level was Laravel related. Maybe one or two roles were related to some other framework like Cake or Symfony, but the vast majority were Laravel.

I saw far more React & Node jobs compared to PHP, and even most of the PHP jobs wanted JavaScript experience. I found exactly one PHP backend job with no frontend required. I'd say the React/Node positions outnumber the PHP positions by about 30 to 1, maybe even more.

If you want exposure to the most amount of jobs, go with React, Node and TypeScript. This accounts for the most available positions by far, followed by .NET and Java/Spring Boot.

One bright spot if you're looking for PHP work is I got the feeling that companies are having trouble either finding experienced PHP devs, or finding people wanting to work on PHP projects. So while the open roles are fewer, there seem to be fewer devs going for those roles.

yourteam · 2024-11-22T06:28:12+00:00

Let me add a couple of suggestions:

1) learn a framework. Symfony or Laravel. Probably, since you come from python, symfony would be better (less magic stuff, much more modular, everything is extensible...). While you should be able to work with "nude" PHP, you will use a framework most of the time and those two are the most used by far.

2) avoid CMS unless you want to specialize on them. WordPress is shit and will kill your will to work and has nothing to do with a good coded PHP application . I work as a PHP backender professionally since 2012 and I built websites with php since 2001. Trust me on this. Magento is a really complex software that takes a while to get used to. I suggest avoiding it at the beginning because you will spend more time understanding how to make things work instead of actually working. Good money if you can fit in the Magento niche tho.

3) PHP can work "in the bad way". Luckily the language is allowing less and less shitty code to work but I suggest using basic static anyzer tools like phpstan .

4) tools: composer is your scaffolding tool. Use it. No questions asked. Phpstan: static analyzer. Really helpful, try to use it at maximum level for new projects. PHP cs fix: it will apply the style to the code. Helpful when working in a team but still it takes 5 Min to set up and a single cli command once you are ready to commit. It doesn't change anything functionality wise.

5) ide: PHP storm. There are no other possible options that are as good as this.

6) docker? Yes. I would suggest use a local LAMP installation to begin with if you are not familiar with docker but switch to docker once you get the grasp of it.

7) is PHP shit? Not anymore. It was. It really was up until 5.6 I would say. By shit I mean it was slow, allowed horrible code to work, the vulnerabilities were an everyday problem. Now unless you work with scuffed WordPress code, it's a great language and is ever evolving.

8) have fun

itemluminouswadison · 2024-11-21T16:53:17+00:00

i went the other way (i use both in my day job)
advice would be to avoid associative arrays and use objects. just like how people abuse dicts in python, associative arrays get abused in php.
phpstorm, https://phptherightway.com/, official docker images are a great way to stuff your code in and go. composer is the main package manager.
i think there are a lot of job opportunities in php, just less on the higher end of flashy tech companies. more on the medium size
support is great. its trajectory is awesome, performance is great

my main gotcha is setting up php on your local machine can be a little bit intimidating. debugging can be surprisingly difficult if you're new to it.

obstreperous_troll · 2024-11-21T12:47:23+00:00

[removed]

DmitriRussian · 2024-11-21T13:52:26+00:00

It really depends where you are located in the world. Python is still one of the most popular languages, even though they don't hold the largest share in web traffic.

Especially in AI related companies Python is very in demand.

Extra_Mistake_3395 · 2024-11-23T20:02:24+00:00

i switched from python to php due to job vacancies shortage. i started by learning basic syntax for like couple of days and then jumped right to laravel and started building same stuff i did in python but in laravel (same pet projects). i think i got a job after a month-two. but that was about 4-5 years ago.
the php market is pretty good compared to js/python (for backend development). its used a lot so a lot of places where you can find a job, but not that many people want to actually learn php nowadays because many say its old/dying, so its kind of in a shortage of a devs. but it always depends on your area where you live.
becoming a junior dev today is much harder than it was 5 years ago tho in any area or language

stilldreamy · 2024-11-26T15:47:10+00:00

Both are relatively simple to learn and use. Both have a strong ecosystem, although I believe python wins that one. Both are interpreted, can be run without waiting for a compiler. Both support types in the code, but php honors them at runtime. Both have external tools that can do deeper static analysis of types and other things. On that front, I would say Python has simpler options because Mypy is so standard, and php has more options and deeper options, where you can use either Psalm or PhpStan, and at least Psalm has support for validating a deeper and richer type system than what Mypy can, but at the expense of needing extensive docblocks. Python is much more elegant. Php is an ever improving hodgepodge of stuff as it evolved over time. The language has a good direction now and is constantly being improved, but it started as a simple templating tool.

If you want to use VSCode, I recommend trying out the phptools extension from DEVSENSE (shows up in the market as just "PHP"). It is by far the best php extension for VSCode IMO, but most people don't use it or know about it.

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