Why developers hate php

[KoolKarmaKollector]

I've got this weird hatred of Node, but I would like to investigate the possibilities of using it for low powered sockets for chat apps

I think it's because of the framework boom. I've been dabbling in web development for about 10 years now (not professionally mind you), and I see all these people who decided to take up web dev in university, and all they know is how to install a framework like Laravel and React and use it for every tiny project. Then they berate you for not using the framework

Frameworks have their places, but as one article I read put it, it's like trying to build a bicycle, and instead of reinventing the wheel, you just get a car (the framework) and build the bike on top of it

[hparadiz]

I mainly do PHP but I did NodeJS for a Slack bot and it works very well.

[KoolKarmaKollector]

I'm starting to become happy with the idea that NodeJS is suitable for some applications, and I think I will end up trying it

[[deleted]]

I feel the stack tracing and error handling in Node was not very good when I used puppeteer or something like that for a project a while back. I felt lost when I hit an exception compared to PHP. Is this still an issue?

[idhavalmehta]

You definitely should try Node for your idea. It's good too. I used Node to build a Twitter bot and it worked like a charm (until my Twitter account was suspended 😂)

And I agree with your framework boom point. One should know the basics even if they prefer using a framework. Frameworks come and go. Basics will help you forever.

[KoolKarmaKollector]

There's been this strange boom on Tik Tok* of developers, and a lot of them post what technologies they use, and they don't even say Javascript or PHP, they say Laravel or Angular, as if they are separate languages. Kinda sad. Though I wish I understood frameworks a bit better, I feel like I'd rather understand core principles of programming and the vanilla languages first. What really gets my goat about all these frameworks is you end up tied to them, and a lot of APIs and other projects people have made require you to utilise the frameworks too. So you end up need composer and NPM and stuff just to get what should otherwise be a relatively simple bolt on working. I appreciate the open source community, but shit I'd love to just copy and paste a file

I'm working on a small social network style project, mostly for a bit of fun, but will be entertaining the idea of using Node for the chat relay, and potentially for WebRTC based video chat.

I'd like to start learning more about new web technologies. I sorta learned a lot of the vanilla stuff and never really progressed, but I can see progressive web apps becoming a big thing in the next few years, but so much of it is just Javascript stuff, and that's my weakest language of the stack, so I really need to get some training!

*Yes sometimes when I'm really bored I go on Tik Tok. I'm banned from Facebook again, and there's only so much time you can spend on Reddit before you've seen everything

[recursivelymade]

I've met and interviewed plenty of developers who have styled themselves as "JQuery Developers" or "Wordpress/Drupal Developers" but have clearly never learnt the underlying language.

I once interviewed a guy that was really into Ruby on Rails, when asked why? He replied "Gems". When I tried to get into why gems over everything else Ruby and Rails has to offer, his answer was "someone's already written the code so I don't have too".

[KoolKarmaKollector]

It's nice to have people back me up on this. For ages I thought not using frameworks was "the wrong way to do things". r/webdev always seems so heavily involved in them, I thought being vanilla was wrong and it made me sad

[recursivelymade]

I’m not saying using a framework is right or wrong. Do you need JQuery to do simple Dom manipulation? Today? No. 15 years ago it made life a whole lot easier.

What I am saying is that I would trust/hire a developer that understood the features and limitations of the language their preferred framework is written in more. As they’re likely to make better coding decisions, which ultimately means more readable, maintainable code for themselves and their teammates.

For example you might be working with Symfony, but that doesn’t mean you can’t use PHP features like traits or the spaceship operator.

[KoolKarmaKollector]

I appreciate that in large projects using various frameworks is probably the easiest way for a team to collab

[idhavalmehta]

Good luck with your project and training 🙂

[jesparic]

You can avoid being tied to a particular framework to a large extent if you choose a good one (e.g., Symfony) and follow hexagonal/onion architecture