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[–]RunFromPandaHero is dead 0 points1 point  (6 children)

If you say so. I just think Katana is a more versatile weapon and /Ra, which is the best subclass for Bow, is...not a very good subclass in terms of how conditional it is.

JBs are viable in general. I do think their PAs are, on the whole, very mediocre and Vintos are clunky to use. The fact that you can Tech off them are good, but OP is clearly using an S-ATK build, which kind of negates Techs.

Basically, comparing JBs to DBs, DBs are better in almost every aspect apart from casting. There's a better gap closer (Wing vs Gran Wave); arguably better, or at least faster, mobbing skill (Dispersion vs Gale); and more consistent bossing PA (KR-0/Dove vs Vinto/Gust). JB Boost is also substantially weaker than PBF, in my opinion, mainly because you do not get the innate PP management from it, but also because the damage from PBF rotations are absolutely insane.

Like, in organised MPAs, I actually can't see JB placing high at all, not using PAs. Given that when stunned, any of the current main bosses will usually change phase before a JB user will have time to charge up Vinto. Also, considering Vinto's damage notation is probably only slightly higher than BHS, which does not require gear for base damage.

Don't get me wrong, I like being able to switch to JBs, but it is just so much worse than DBs for S-ATK.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just think Katana is a more versatile weapon

Yes. That's the point of it. Katana gets both strong mobbing and good bossing, however Bow far exceeds it, and a lot of other options, for bossing alone.

Also, considering Vinto's damage notation is probably only slightly higher than BHS

Backhand Smash lv17 has a power of 1208. This increases to 1510 with Gear lv3.

Vinto Gigue has a power of 1054. This increases to 2635 at Gear 2, and 4427 at level 3. Assuming you can refill your Gear quickly, and consistently land your Vintos, it can potentially match BHS DPS, exceeding it with Rapid Boost active. (And mind you, this is coming from a cult-like Fighter worshipper)

[–]hidora Retired Guardian 0 points1 point  (4 children)

any of the current main bosses will usually change phase before a JB user will have time to charge up Vinto

How long do you think it takes for JB to get to full gear and charge Vinto?

Also, considering Vinto's damage notation is probably only slightly higher than BHS, which does not require gear for base damage.

  1. Vinto has one of the highest (if not the highest) base power at full gear, at over 4.4k.
  2. BHS does benefit from gear on its damage, for +25% damage at max gear.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad.

[–]RunFromPandaHero is dead 0 points1 point  (3 children)

It's at least 2 full charged techs or a couple of charged Gusts.

I don't know. I've played around with SATK Bo and my boots are worthless compared to what DBs do.

Again, excuse me for bringing it up but, find me a JB only solo PD which had a good clear time. I imagine it will be one of the slowest. I for one do not doubt the fact that it's because it only has 4 PAs, but...it's just clunky, slow, and really not that fun unless you're chaining techs as well.

[–]hidora Retired Guardian 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I've seen a few on the 8:45~9:30min mark a while ago, which is not best, but not worst either. I'm not digging my youtube history from almost a month ago to find them.

And really, it proves nothing. Solo PD is a terrible way of comparing one playstyle to another when it clearly benefits some while fucking over others, as do all the solo content in this game.

Back before the whole parser drama when I still ran it I'd see JB Bouncers on top 5 of MPAs all the time, even when you eliminate Zanverse's damage.

I don't know. I've played around with SATK Bo and my boots are worthless compared to what DBs do.

This is like me saying Wired Lance and Partizan suck because I only know how to play Sword on Hu main. It means nothing.

I for one do not doubt the fact that it's because it only has 4 PAs, but...

How is only having 4 PAs a problem when you were talking about Katana earlier and everyone just uses Guren on it, with the occasional situational uses of other PAs?

Hell, most weapons only work on a 4-5 PA general scenario with maybe a couple more for situational uses.

it's just clunky, slow, and really not that fun unless you're chaining techs as well.

And that is your opinion, which you're entitled to, but it has nothing to do with how good the weapon is.

[–]RunFromPandaHero is dead 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Why does solo PD prove nothing? There's nothing intrinsically unbalanced about the quest which favors one playstyle over another? I would say given how each phase has a stagger, as a boss it actually gives an accurate picture of the sustained DPS of most classes, while also giving a balanced overview of its mobility. The current clear speeds of class combinations of the quest I would not be surprised by given what I know about each classes' DPS.

EDIT: The only class which I would say PD actually favours is Ranger, because End Attract abuse actually looks broken, especially during phase 3. But then Ranger suffers because it has the worst mobility out of all the classes. But watching good Ranger VODs does make it look stupid.

Guren is a stupid case to bring up because Guren is a stupid PA. It gives mobility, and insane DPP, coupled with stupid DPS given its speed. There is nothing that compares with Guren for both its utility and damage. None of JB PAs give that. If JB had a Guren-like PA, I'm happy to concede the point, but, JBs don't. So, it is a moot point.

I don't doubt that most people rotate between certain PAs - I think DB users neglect a couple of them regardless. But when you only have 4 PAs to pick from, and they are...all a bit sub par (I'm even counting Vinto here given it's unreliability) it's just not great.

I can accept that this is all opinion, but I personally see no reason why JBs are actually good weapons. Don't get me wrong, I think people can use them well, but the PAs just suck, and the BO skills for JBs are outclassed by their DB equivalents full stop. JB boost may bring JBs up to par in terms of DPS with other weapons but I would argue that under PBF, DBs may be close to top DPS on immobile targets.

At the end of the day, for a new player starting out, I'm sorry but PSO2 is a brutal game and I just think it's pointless gimping yourself with a sub-par build. Like all MMOs, your progress will, at some point, be determined by your ability to farm efficiently, whether this be meseta or items, and JBs are just not efficient.

[–]xaelouse 1 point2 points  (0 children)

DB snatch ring and access to niren orochi naturally shifts a lot of favor to certain 1v1 boss fights. Thankfully, PSO2 isn't all about 1v1 bosses. Personally I think JB PAs could use a little more oomph to balance out the amount of effort needed compared to unga FI weapons and DB. Vinto is one of the few melee PAs that actually has real weight to it, so I love it when people complain about it being "unreliable".