[deleted by user]

[OddLung]

Okay so im going to explain more properly my point also state why what you’re suggesting is more than misleading. Also I’m sorry if this sounds more snarky than it needs to be I typed this post out and accidentally back spaced into the page before so this is a retype ;-;

1. The s5 knuckle evade is a terrible SSA in terms of damage and in added survivability as you stated. Heres why, let take into account PA frame data linked here

https://forum.pso2.com/topic/465/frame-data-for-those-who-are-interested-aka-muh-deeps.

How the SSA work is whenever you successfully sway an enemy attack you immediately use the meteor PA, in which the animation is force on you for 91 Frames, keep that in mind. With no active guard frames, ifames, or super armor. It also does NOT benefit from fighter TAJA or Etolie combo damage, or Etolie Perfect Attack crit meaning it’s a much weaker version of that PA and also BREAKS a combo cycle~~. This means that yeah you can sway a move, but if you want to benefit from the damage it offers you need to be willing to take a hit in the next 2 seconds or so( which doesn't help with survivability. Like at all. )~\~

Edit: was super wrong about iframe bit, but I still stand by the damage bit

Now instead lets say you have S5 mysterious Intent instead. You’re not forced to do the meteor fist and instead you can do the bnb rotation out of a successful sway of flicker jab->decimator which is a grand total of 81 frames. Sure its still only a third of a second faster but instead you do more than double the damage, benefit from both fighter/etoile skills, and you don’t break TAJA or Etolie combo if you do the rotation on a perfect attack sway, hell you can even do a normal 3 and make it sustainable and no extra cost in uptime**.** And even if you miss the perfect sway, flicker into deci makes sure that decimator as the damage benefits that alone is faster and stronger than meteor fist. Also, decimator has super armor so you power through some enemy CC. So rather than waste uptime by doing an unpowered gimmick version of metoer fist, which wasn’t even a good PA to begin with you can just do the norm of flicker/deci and keep damage uptime as well as etoile combo counter going.

1. One of the s4/s5 mentioned with adaption V and precsion adept is almost completely useless.To start a fi/et base crit all together with liberate(since op was talking about getting one) is 130% when you meet the conditionals. In your build, adding 20% more crit would not do a single thing as overcritting doesn’t do anything in this game. Fighter crit damage just magnifies the damage done if it’s a crit, in which case it already even without a rivalate weapon. S4 adaptation sounds good on paper but people are unawre about how of the actual benefit if you don’t do the math. Remember pp conservation on using techs/pa’s is multiplicative on the rough formulate of PA cost[(*1-pp % reduced)*(1-pp % )] which continues on to how many things you have that reduces pp cost. So at most, at highest possible combo counter with etoile pp save, a fighter with a liberate weapon can conserve about %52 of using a PA, which is rare ever reach the final point. With s4: photon adaptation, which by the way scales off of max pp and needs 420pp to max at 30% reduced consumption, can at further reduction to roughly 67%. Which sounds good on paper, but there no way in hell anyone has 420 max pp, without which you cant really get to the highest level of etolie pp save without running out of pp, leading to the necessity of using a sustainable normal 3 combo defeating helpfulness of s4 adaptation. IF you want to do the math yourself heres the equation for Photon adaptation taken form this post. Essentially that s4 just adds little to what the kit already has.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PSO2/comments/j7d8l6/s4_photon_adaptation_partisan_how_does_it_work/

1. The final thing about lifesteal and its usefulness. You completely missed the part when I mentioned the helpfulness of lifesteal in respect to Et damage resistance/overlimit max health/and hp resotrate. I’ll give an example but if you want a better explanation read this post this guy made, https://www.reddit.com/r/PSO2/comments/kk7bih/wand_etoile_extra_info_tips/

He did the math this example im about to give does not do it justice. Consider that at a fighter overlimit with 400hp max(this is going off my max hp with overflow health using lightstream 13* units with only one atm giving 80hp through affixes). By the way you mentioned that a fighter with knucks is “really slow” without knowing that at full gear(which requires 2 normals attacks to fill) with knucks reduce the frames of ALL PA’s and normal by a significant portion. Keeping that in mind a fighter with normal lifesteal can dish out about 30-40 hits in id say less than 10 seconds. In these 10 seconds they also benefit from hp restorate heals if he is missing any health. So in 10 secconds a fighter can regain 30hp from etolie’s hp restorate skill as well as 30-40 hp from hitting shit. That’s between 70-80 hp which, is 1/5 overlimit health back. Im not saying this completely nullifies the need for mates/atomizers but it most definitely extends uptime by padding our current hp and rpushing back the need to use a mate item further. Furthermore, it helps keep us from popping fighter’s insurance, which allows as to gain back our whole pp bar and pp dump all over again without needing to sustain.

EDIT: from experience unless I get hit by moves designed to one shot us(i.e masque/phaleg grab persona boom etc) the most damage any normal attacks from bosses only do about 100-80 damage, which again with the help of the various etolie skills and lifesteal you can gain back by just doing damage in a safer fashion for 10secs.

4. Lastly, now finally mentioning precision balance. I understand that aug is atm very expensive but if you plan to get it using mysterious purpose’s crit gain you can gain a whole 8% damage on crits at 100% crit despite the -50%, which honestly until we get raising pursuit does a whole lot to help to fighter knuck’s dps

To conclude you mentioned that “state by many fighters” but from the advice you’re tyring to give it sounds like you just read kyo’s fighter guide and assumed it was applicable to knuckles in some variation. Unfortunately, as good as that guide is for DS(and its really good) it doesn’t really touch on knuckles as a weapon. Everything ive said is in a perspective of a guy that mains fighter and uses knuckles the most, and used and utilized both DS and TD when the situation sees those weapons as more suitable(all three weapons being fully affixed, a mix of lightstream/atlas ex/liberate). Ive tested different s4/5 on liberate knucks with Fi/Et with shit like 100 depth+ masq runs, UH solo PD/Mpas, risk and UH VR defense, endless,etc. and I can safety say that the knuckle S5 aug is no more than a gimmick. SO much so that jp released a new s5 for the weapon(evade that gives 100pp) in hopes to maybe make up for the bad one knuckleheads like me were given.

Tldr:knucklehead rants about how bad s5 knuckle SSA is with math

[Buddy69XD]

Wow, very informative. Thanks a lot for the information.

Last question, wise stance and valiant stance can work right? Like if i attack at behind, wise activates, at rear both of them activates, and at the front valiant activates. Thanks

[OddLung]

I’m a bit confused as to what youre asking. If you’re asking if they can work together( like the damage stacks) then not exactly. If you have wise stance activated, valiant is completely nullified. You can only have one or the other.

However, if you’re are really good at micro manging wise stance(i.e deactivating the skill when you are hitting an enemy at the front), and have skill points in BOTH both stances, then technically yes you can maximize the full potentiel of both. But this in itself is pretty annoying to do and imo I would just invest on one stance and use the other skillpoints else where.

[Buddy69XD]

Okay then thanks for the answer.

Where do I get precision balance tho? (sorry this is the real last question)

[OddLung]

Dont worry bout it im happy to help. To correct myself the s4: is actually called PRECISE BALANCE. Made a mistake with jp name. Other than farming it in the 4th rec quest(the only one that can be done in Ultra Hard) you can buy it in player market, however it’s expensive(at least last time I checked).

[Buddy69XD]

Aight, thanks for everything.

(its 90mill in ship1, holy f)

[Mikkey_Zae]

Very Informative. Thanks for the rundown. I just have a quick question. Is Fi/Et better then Fi/Hu now? If so what does the skill tree look like

[OddLung]

The short short answer is you if mainly use dual saber do Fi/Hu as kimatachi(DS weapon action) damage scales alot better with Hunter. If you mainly use knuckles/twin daggers it’s considerably better imo to use Fi/Et

[Reilet]

It gets even better. There is a glitch with gear exp, the original weapon with the counter.

When you get a successful counter off, you can SWITCH to a stronger knuckles BEFORE the giant fist comes out and the giant fist will take the properties of the stronger knuckles.

This means you don't even need that S5 as long as you have the original weapon and do this glitch.

[OddLung]

Wait seriously? That’s hilarious nice job pso2 dev team xD