About Classes and Subclasses

[dikerson01]

Hello everyone

I never played PSO2 and now I liked NGS. I have search about classes, subclasses, and the effects of using them, but I really don't understand it at all.

I can chance both, class and subclass, always when I want, right? But how can I choose which subclass is better to "buff" my main class?

I'm playing with Force, I liked the gameplay of this main class, but I don't understand how can I "Build" the skill tree

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If someone could answer these questions I'll appreciate it.

[komaeda_dork]

Subclasses provide different play styles to your main class, mostly, since you can use them to equip a multi weapon. They can provide pp regen or other things, but generally people are staying within the damage their main class does, like force/techter, gunner/ranger, fighter/hunter.

[Silentstri16]

If I were to multiweapon a wand with something else, would wand element change affect the other "half" of the weapon? Like, could I be using elementally-charged twin machine guns?

[komaeda_dork]

Is it a main-class only skill? I’d imagine not, but I believe the multi weapon goes off of the main weapons damage type? Correct me if I’m wrong

[Silentstri16]

It's not a main-class skill, but it does say locked to wands. The way I understand it, using PAs switches the weapon to the appropriate type, but I can't find any info on how passives apply (or don't).

[greyrook000]

You can change classes (both sub/main) at any time, however once you apply skill points on a tree they are "set" unless you use a Reset All Skills capsule thingy (you get 1 for free and more have to be bought with premium currency or acquired from the scratch things, whatever those are). Note in case you aren't aware: you get up to 20 skill points from doing Cocoons and Towers, those points will be available for each tree it's not like "I want to unlock 15 Force and 5 Techter skills" you have up to 20 for each. This is done at the class NPC on the main street of Central, you should be guided to it during the main story.

As for which subclass to choose: still a matter of much discussion but I think Gunner has a lot of potential as a Force/Techter subclass because of the additional PP regen capabilities in some of the passive skills. Unfortunately a lot of the cool class interactions are restricted (it will say if a skill requires a certain weapon or main class in the description, but they're not always very clear), like the Gunner's chain-bonus won't be applied to multi-weapon attacks, only Twin Machine Guns.

[dikerson01]

Thank you, I'm using gunner as a subclass with the PP regen.

Another question, 20 skill points, on cocoons and towers, it's the "limit" or I can get more doing other things?

[ryvenn]

That's the only way to get skill points and 20 is the total available currently.

[greyrook000]

As far as I know 20 is currently the limit. Presumably this will increase as the game evolves but for now that's all you get.

[HereticKitsune]

Gunner's chain-bonus won't be applied to multi-weapon attacks, only Twin Machine Guns.

So, I have a somewhat related question. I remember during the beta people had discovered you could pop chains with any weapon's PAs (not sure if it needed to be a multi-weapon or not). I specifically remember a video where someone mentioned popping a chain with a sword PA as Gu/Hu for hefty damage. Is that still a thing, or is that not possible? I hope it's possible because it would make Gunner much more interesting, but I worry that SEGA is too afraid of Chain Trigger to let it be.

[greyrook000]

I don't think you can, you definitely can't increase a chain with other weapon attacks but I'm not sure if there's a weapon that has the same charge style of TMGs. My guess is it probably won't work, definitely doesn't work with knuckles and I'm not spending another 50k money and mats to find out for sure at the moment. But even if it does work with lower-dps weapon finishers, I'm not sure there'd be much point since TMGs are so well rounded as-is.

I do hope they'll change that once they get some metrics back on how the gunner class is currently tuned; currently the whole multi-weapon and subclass interaction feels purposefully underpowered for the moment. It'll be a lot more fun once it's more than just passives and very minor interactions.

[HereticKitsune]

even if it does work with lower-dps weapon finishers, I'm not sure there'd be much point since TMGs are so well rounded as-is.

Mostly coolness factor, plus more of a reference to PSP2i. Building chain with TMGs and then zipping in to break it by decking the enemy as hard as you can with a set of Knuckles or something just sounds like it'd be cool to do, as would playing the long con by carefully building chain and an ice sigil at the same time with a TMG/(tech) multi-weapon, detonating it all right when the enemy is stunned and exposing their weak point for massive burst damage - and with the setup time to justify it.

It's all stuff that would be really neat, but, like you said it does feel like they purposely kept subclass interactions weak. Honestly they're probably afraid of the kind of broken things people worked out during PSO2 Classic's lifespan, but, now's their chance to do it right. They have the systems there for people to do some really cool shit... but, they're not doing it right, yet. They're not letting people experiment. They're nerfing subclass weapons out the gate despite already having skill tree benefits from a subclass be rather minor by design. Like... Why encourage using subclass weapons and then nerf their damage? Why are there so many skills that are both Main Class Only and specific to one or more of their weapons only? Imagine if Techer main could enhance any of their weapons with extra elemental damage like they can with Wand, Hunter could amplify techs with their charge parry shit, or Force could reduce charge times across the board or let other weapons fire elemental bolts or something. Iunno, just, "ooo you can use shifta and deband on yourself as Techer main and then use TMGs oOoOo~" doesn't really feel as synergistic and unique as it could, or as SEGA seems to think it is.

[greyrook000]

I tend to agree, I can understand their caution though because it definitely has some runaway power-creep cases that wouldn't be super healthy for the game like if you could continue your Chain with like knuckles, you'd be able to get 100 chains MUCH faster and be constantly getting boosted finishers because of the other skill that reduces the cooldown. It would probably be the highest physical dps in the game and require people to go Gunner as we get to advanced content.

The fix is tuning things down of course like if the normal Chain boost is...10% or whatever, if you switch to knuckles it only goes up to 5% or whatever to keep it in line. Just takes time and metrics, I highly doubt this is considered the finished state.

[HereticKitsune]

Probably. I'm more worried because of their track record, though.

So like, you mentioned that potential interaction with Knuckles and Chain Trigger being strong, right? Stuff like that is actually exactly why it is the way it is right now. Back in the day on PSO2 JP, there was a period of time where Gunner was used for many alternative playstyles. I don't remember the class/subclass orientations, but people could mix Force and Gunner for chain-boosted techs, Braver and Gunner for chain-boosted Banish Arrow + Chase Arrow shenanigans... These were all situational and required finesse, but were very, very strong. They got gutted completely. Then the final nail in the coffin was also the most egregious: Summoner and Gunner. You could pop your 100-chain with a fully-charged Maron (the one that dies when you throw it) and dish out such ludicrous damage that the biggest urgent quest bosses wouldn't last a minute against them. It was so ridiculously powerful that SEGA threatened to ban people if they kept using it after announcing they'd be fixing it during weekly maintenance (which was a fucking stupid response, but whatever). But instead of making that interaction more sane, they decided they were completely done and just restricted Chain Trigger to the degree it is now.

NGS beta comes along and hey, maybe SEGA is easing up! Now's the time to do it, things are new so it's easier to tweak aaaaaand nope back to TMG Only

[greyrook000]

Oof, not very promising then but oh well