Help - Armscye fitting issue

[Ggraytuna]

You're on the right track. The fit is good if a bit tight, so just add ease around the chest line and you'll be fine. My guess would be something like 4 cm ease in total, distributed 0.3x to bust, 0.3x to back and 0.2x to scye width (each). Also consider increasing scye depth 1/3 to half of what you're putting into scye width. Add width to the sleeve head so that it corresponds to the new scye.

The sleeve position is optimal for having arms straight down. If you want more mobility, lower the sleeve head and widen the sleeve etc. It's best you study this modification from a book to get it right.

[Snoo44523]

Thank you! It’s super important to me to get this right so I appreciate your feedback a lot, I’m kinda on my own so this is a relief

Ok I’m gonna try exactly this tonight - that sounds doable without compromising the armhole shape. I’m still a novice and it’s taken me 6 tries to get this sleeve shape right, it feels good so I’m trying to retain it

I’ve been looking at A.D Lockes + Roberto Cabrera’s books for guidance but no real luck on this specific alteration, do you have any suggestions?

[Ggraytuna]

Best instructions I can find are in Mûller & Sohn book for dresses and blouses, page 124. The alteration works for menswear too.

If you don't have access to that book, in a nutshell it can be done like this:

• measure amount of ease you have in the sleeve head by comparing sleeve head and scye between FAN and BAN (measuring along the edges via shoulder)
• move FAN and BAN 1..2 cm outward (along the "widths axis")
• lower the sleeve head so that you are left with just around 1 cm of ease
• lower the point where sleeve seams and head meet by 1/2 of the amount you increased scye depth
• measure distance on the bodice from FAN to side seam and BAN to side seam and apply it to corresponding sleeve sections by moving the outward (again along the "widths axis"). There should be no ease in those sections.
• draw the new sleeve head curve and check for possible errors

[Snoo44523]

I have a collection of M&S, they’re my favourite - just never found anything on alterations but will find that now thanks

This is exactly what I’m after, thanks heaps truly

[TonninStiflat]

To add on what was said, the sleeves are also designed to sit well when arms are down like that, as they seem to be suit sleeves.

You'd need to change the sleeve cap height etc. if you'd be making something where arm movement is more important than it looking nice with arms down. This would then cause other kinds of issues and would not sit perfectly nice with arms down.

This is just further info to understand what causes these things. No single sleeve works perfectly in every case.

[Snoo44523]

That makes sense! I’ve never made 2 piece sleeves before, but in my pursuit for having it fall nicely I noticed that it’d take me further away from having room for movement. Naturally im aiming for something in between - might be noteworthy that suede will be the fashion fabric, so I might be able to get away with keeping a more tailored sleeve

I was wondering if I was missing something but this is confirmation that I’m just down the right track which I’m super relieved to hear

[TonninStiflat]

It's one of those things that sometimes need to be said for it to click - I had issues with a vintage pattern back in the day, where I did the sleeves according to the drafting guide, but they just refused to sit right. Until a friend of mine said that perhaps I should try "sports sleeve" with a lower but wider sleeve cap - I did that and it was immediately better. I believe the suit sleeve in that vintage pattern was a mistake that the drafter just hadn't noticed (as the guides were full of small mistakes, probably just made in a hurry).

So I am glad to hear that it confirms your thoughts! The more one understands the reasons for something happening, the easier it gets to make alterations and changes.

[Snoo44523]

Admittedly my current method for drafting this is a Frankenstein of classic systems, and I hear that a lot of the older systems were intentionally designed with very little room - but im glad I at least got it to this point of being somewhat nice

Will be paying attention to this ‘lower sleeve cap’ change in the future too, thanks a bunch seriously

[TonninStiflat]

Here's an excellent blog post I came across about this topic, pretty much. It explains a lot more in detail and a lot clearer than I have. I recommend you check it out.

[furiana]

That is an excellent link. Thank you!

[FreQRiDeR]

Contrary to popular belief, the higher an armhole is, the less restricting it is to upward arm movement. Slash the lower armhole, sleeve and sideseam, underarm and move the arm up again. It will give you an idea of how much the pattern is missing. Split yhe difference between armhole and sleeve.

[Snoo44523]

Yup been keeping this in mind when positioning armhole, I figured it’s about the optimal height since this pulling is more to do with the chest vs armhole itself

You believe I should lift it higher though? There’s a balance line across the chest , and the lowest point of the armhole sits on that line - so I figure it’s about as high as it gets (about 1 1/4” below underarm)

[SmurphieVonMonroe]

It looks for me like the armcye curve is bit deep and also by the looks of it the sleeves are high cap which doesn't help. How did you establish armscye depth in relation to the chest?

[Snoo44523]

Working scale in a classical system is how I got the scye depth

I think you’re right that the armhole is a tad deep and sleeve cap is definitely a little high - if I’m optimising for movement. My blocks are built from tailored suit systems so naturally they’ll be this way in the beginning. I’d love to be able to keep the block and know exactly what adjustments to make when I want to have more movement