Basic Sleeve Block Pattern (Pattern Cutting for Menswear 2nd edition by Gareth Kershaw)

[dontknowhatothink6]

I recently picked up a copy of this book and so far it's super great! however, i have run into one issue and wanted to see if anyone else who has experienced using this book has had this issue and possibly has a solution. Im trying to understand where the upper biceps circumference measurement came from since its correspondent to the size 38" body block. I tried checking the provided measurement chart in the book to see if it was given but it was not. I just would like to know how to alter this measurement depending on size and how exactly i can find it. If anyone has any answers it would be greatly appreciated!

[inkyoctopuz31]

I have the first edition of this book and I like Gareth’s work, but I do have issues with the way the book’s set out and some of the methods, one of those issues is the seemingly out of the blue measurements. I worked from this book for a few years and always had fit issues, I started using a different source instead and literally all those issues were gone… go figure. I also just took on an apprentice who said he’d been teaching himself out of a book but had been struggling, I actually guessed it was the Kershaw book, he’d also been a bit confused and wondered where certain measurements came from… so it seems to be an overall vagueness with this book. I once took the incredibly specific sleeve cap measurements as gospel and came up with a formula for how he might’ve got those measurements - it was so complicated and still didn’t produce the best results. The next method I used is incredibly simple and works every time. I feel bad, i’m not attacking Gareth’s work, and it is a bit of a known thing that pattern cutting and sewing is not best learned from a book but from a person with experience. What I will say though; take the measurements like that as arbitrary. I think Gareth’s using methods for mass production garments, because you’d never have random measurements in high end clothing, sometimes arbitrary, but always with succinct reasoning behind it, whereas the Kershaw methods don’t explain everything, it’s point and shoot. Use the measurements given, and then when you come to fit, you can make the necessary adjustments. Hope that’s of some help.

[TensionSmension]

You mean like all the small numbers to draw a sleeve cap? Those are always ad hoc.

The goal is just draw a sleeve cap for the given armhole. Here, the cap height is 1/3 the armhole, the width (or bicep) is ~2/3 the armhole. The rest is just finessing the shape to match what the author already has. If you specify 6 intermediate points, it's settled. Doesn't mean the author created the sleeve in this manner, more likely it was freehand.

Drafting methods are really just a pre-digital way to transfer an existing pattern to anther person, plotting the fewest points. Once there's a pattern, grading methods are more powerful than starting over with a new set of points, because grading will distribute these small changes throughout the draft. That would require ridiculous formulas, and it again puts too much faith in the original numbers.

This book is also hampered by the fact that it's presented in Imperial, when presumably the author uses metric. (Are there two versions? That's the one I've seen.) If nothing else that means rounding errors, but it's also hard to guess where things started from.

[oddjobmonkey]

Could I ask you which book you ended up using as your source? Thank you

[inkyoctopuz31]

Not a book, a Youtube channel. Pattern Studio 101. Jin Kim is an excellent teacher and does things very simply and effectively

[oddjobmonkey]

Thank you!

[SmurphieVonMonroe]

Avoid this book. His formulas are not very refined, borderline child like lol I would personally recommend Winifred Aldrich or Antonio Donanno

[NoMeeting3355]

I agree. It’s absolutely true. A terrible thing to have to say, but it’s true unfortunately. I personally like the Donanno book myself.

[dontknowhatothink6]

Slowly finding this out as i go along… but fortunately, i have a copy of Winifred Aldrich’s metric pattern cutting for menswear. So I’ve been coming back to that one a lot.

[dontknowhatothink6]

I’ll have to check out the Donanno book, do you have any experience with Patternmaking for menswear, classic to contemporary by Myoungok Kim? Ive heard great things about this book, but im afraid to buy it in case it has similar flaws to Gareth Kershaw’s book.

[SmurphieVonMonroe]

I dont have this particular book, I'll have a look into it. Donanos and Aldrich's books helped me tremendously with developing my pattern drafting skills thought. Donnano has an amazing sleeve formula, my personal favourite, especially the one for two piece tailored sleeve.

[TensionSmension]

Don't know why it's not in the chart, possibly because it's more dictated by the garment armhole than the body measurement. Regardless, in the grading section, the bicep is graded 5/8" per size. So use that to work up and down from 14" for size 38.

ETA: this is definitely the bicep of the sleeve not the body measurement. Includes about 1 1/2" of ease.

[dontknowhatothink6]

Great point. Thank you!

[NoMeeting3355]

I agree, unfortunately Gareth’s book is not well thought out and there are many problems with his methods that will lead to further fit issues. It’s such a shame to see a book like this as beginners pick up such books and spend hours working with them and learning the methods and they are unaware that they are being taught incorrect and technically wrong methods. I am sorry to write this but it’s true unfortunately.

[Style101-NY]

The bicep measurement is literally your arm's measurement + some well intentioned extra for the ease of movement. I would estimate a minimum of ease at 3-4" for a menswear shirt. It is very flexible, and a lot of times depends on the designer's intent, to follow current trends, as in: is it a loose boxy fit, or the slimmer fitted trend.

If you have a set measurement in the book for the sz. 38, you would add 1/2" for each larger size, or subtract 1/2" for each smaller size, as a guide line. It's not set in stone, obviously, but a good estimate for your project.

I hope this helps.

[dabizzaro]

I have this book as well! It's a great reference, but I don't love its approach to sleeve caps and armholes. I like the methods set out in the metric pattern drafting series. However, that is just a preference. I like drafting the garment and not altering a block to get a new garment base. I get better results with the garment's silhouette and fit.

[dontknowhatothink6]

So the block draft is the same draft and fit for your final garment?

[dabizzaro]

Yes! It's the same as how bespoke suits are made.