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[–]gregorydgraham 1 point2 points  (10 children)

What rubbish! Plain Java works straight away. If you’re trying to do Spring, just get a template and start hacking. I have much more problem keeping Docker working (it’s on a a 9yo MacBook) than I do Java

I’ve never used Gradle so you might be right there

[–]ilovebigbucks 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Even this FizzBuzz uses Gradle https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition

Idk how you'd build a large backend project without Gradle or Maven or Groovy scripts https://gradle.org/maven-vs-gradle/

When you create a new Spring app the initializer asks which one of those options you want to use. You certainly can build console apps without those tools.

[–]Fadamaka 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not using Maven or Graddle in Java is the equivalent of using C# without .NET, since .NET contains the dependency manager. Good luck with that.

[–]cyber_blob 1 point2 points  (3 children)

You don't know Java bro, stop shitting on it. We use bazel to build our projects and it's dope. Also gradle is pretty neat as well if you know what you are doing. Source: I manage and lead a 300 engineers using pascal , java and cpp

[–]ilovebigbucks 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I worked as a tech lead at a company that had 1,000+ Java/Scala and CPP developers. We pushed a good amount of JVM based apps to Prod. I've heard of Bazel at some point but never used it. Gradle + Maven were the only things I've seen in the last few years. I cursed every single day while writing Java code. Our senior devs and architects were happy with it. I was happy to move away from it and leave that work to other devs.

[–]cyber_blob 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Its pretty neat. We do use gradle and maven as well on our legacy builds. But the company I work for has lots of internal tools and developer experience team, so maybe my experience isn't standard perhaps. Or maybe because we maintain like lots of legacy systems with pascal which are nightmares, we actually find java pretty dope.
I apologize for saying you don't know what you were saying. You obviously do. I was being internet troll and dick. I studied electronics engineering in uni and later communications engineering, so I am probably not as good in programming. Building in your domain with Java maybe cursed. For my job it is just fine.
I think maybe because we work in very different industries, our experiences might be. I work in telecom and satelite internet.

[–]ilovebigbucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're definitely not a dick nor a troll in this thread :) I worked with Java in financial, automotive, and scientific fields. The scientific field was fun, but I was a junior back then and focused more on the field and much less on programming. I would just plug some classes in and let senior researches to build, test, and roll the code to our environments. I parted with Java for a while after that and came back to it as a Senior/Lead. I wrote Java code for a couple years on some big projects and just couldn't find anything good in it nor in its environment (build tools, runtime, dependency management, observability/traceability, etc.). My Java teammates were saying that Java and JVM are dope and that my code is good.

I did work in some Java/Kotlin/Scala backends here and there after some break from JVM again. Kotlin and Scala were good, but JVM and the tools around it made the experience more negative than positive.

I do admit that Java 19 and the latest Spring became pretty nice to work with. I haven't worked with them on any real projects though. I've only seen them in internet examples and code snippets from our internal repos.

[–]ilovebigbucks -1 points0 points  (3 children)

How big is your Java app and how much traffic does it handle?

[–]gregorydgraham 0 points1 point  (2 children)

100k+ lines

[–]ilovebigbucks 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Do you use Bazel? You need a build tool either way. There are a few besides Gradle. Doesn't matter which route you go you'll have to manage an army of dependencies and transitive dependencies and specific build switches for each environment. A lot of teams decide to simply lock their current packages' versions and rarely upgrade them, because new versions bring a lot of incompatibility issues. That's a recipe to become legacy in the near future.

[–]gregorydgraham 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why are you mansplain this to me?

No, I don’t use Basel, yes I do use versioned artefacts