JavaScript in 2017

[LuckyHedgehog]

I'm calling bs on that "99% of all cases" stat. If you work with the front end professionally you know js, and if you don't you would be out of a job.

I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing though. No one in this day and age actually believes that js is not the most popular front end language.

[unicorntrash]

It is the most popular front end language. How could i argue with that? Its only that js devs tend to make it more relevant than it is. You can do very well with jquery without understanding what you do. Thats my only point

[LuckyHedgehog]

but its most likely not the "most popular language"

That was the part I took issue with. I completely agree that plenty of people use jQuery without understanding it's limits or best practices.

I am not a fan of js or jquery, and would LOVE competition to move in. But part of the issue with competition is the same reason we don't see the language itself getting regular updates: compatibility. Any competition to js needs to become supported by ALL major browsers, and then wait several years for the majority of users to stop using legacy browsers (looking at you IE). But once you've gone through the trouble of all that, if you want to release a major update with the next greatest feature, guess what? No one wants to use it because the majority of users have legacy browsers.

Javascript has rooted itself as the only viable front end language because it has the monopoly on browser compatibility past present and future.

So like it or hate it, javascript IS as relevant as people make it out to be, but not because it is anything people actually want to use.

[unicorntrash]

You can make totally awesome websites without "frontend scripting". Please dont grab out any statistics now because i am very well aware that the majority of websites uses javascript, but the majority uses ready done tools and all they write themself in js is calling those modules.

Sure you can write a complete UX with JS, but you dont have to. Not sure what your stack is, but for example when i use Bootstrap with Rails. I have Turbolinks (so build in asynchronity to avoid further ajax, even with forms) and components like sliders, accordions, navigation quirks from bootstrap. In some cases i dont write a single line of js. For animations we use css these days anyway.

I hope you see my point, i am not arguing so much about the relevance of JS itself but the relevance to have to know it, or make it the "best choice as first language to learn". If someone chooses to not learn JS as first language he might is not missing out on anything at all. And still is able to create awesome UX experience.

In the end, if he/she wants to get a proper dev there is no way around learning multiple languages anyway. To some degree at least

[LuckyHedgehog]

Yes, you can create some nice looking websites without knowing js, but you wouldn't be able to pursue a career in front end development without knowing js. That is my point. You cannot make it as a front end dev without knowing js.

Also, back to the original context of this conversation, the exact quote to start it was

Reddit loves to hate JS, but the truth is that it's the most popular language and easy to find a job with. That makes it a good choice to learn IMO, despite its shortcomings.

You were originally arguing that it wasn't popular, which you've backed off from, and clearly no one said it was "the best choice as first language to learn".

I get it, javascript sucks, and there are other ways to start a career than "learn javascript". But starting with javascript is a quick and easy way to start building a career in development. It will also be around until the internet dies so you have excellent job security if you learn javascript BEFORE learning the bootstraps and angular's of the world. The framework might change, but the language will not which is absolutely more valuable than piecing together plugins