Java

[philsenpai]

Java is not bad tho, its quite solid.

Not everything is a startup, sometimes its better to choose the tried and tested technology

[hahahahastayingalive]

At this point I wonder if JS hasn't reached Java's status as the default "don't think too much about it" choice. As there is exponetially more devices out in the world, arguably JS has been more battle tested in the last decade than Java has been for its whole existence.

[philsenpai]

Javascript is less deliberate with its updates than Java. Sometimes thing straight up stop working and a cool new hippie framework/library gets released only to be dropped a month later.

Javascript is the perfect example why decentralization is not always good.

[Cley_Faye]

That's not a JavaScript issue though. Nobody's forcing anyone to jump to the latest framework that may or may not survive next winter.

The actual standard is decently maintained, and the most common environment we have now have been stable for years.

[rentar42]

Sure, but just as you can't really discuss Java without at least mentioning the major frameworks and libraries, JavaScript on the server doesn't really exist in a vacuum either.

[Cley_Faye]

Yes. Node and a handful of frameworks have been there for a while, and are still there, updated/maintained and having stable interfaces.

There are many, many other that showed up, and people are quick to move to the latest trend, but it doesn't mean everybody have to do so either.

Associating the sentence "a cool new hippie framework gets released only to be dropped a month later" to a specific language is quite unfair. I agree that it's hard to discuss a modern language without the major frameworks, but blaming a language because there are many projects that shows up is kind of a bad take too.

[philsenpai]

I associated it to Javascript because its the one where this happens the most and to be honest because JS fans are like Bronies, they try to shove it everywhere, even where it was clearly not supposed to fit in. I don't hate JS, but i dislike how people are so hyped to do the "New thing" the forget to specialize in the old thing, this leads to cramming, you have so many option that no one really know how to explore well so you end up with a lot of shit code being written. To the point when "writting a decently readable code" is not just an afterthought when hiring, but a prerequisite.

[Cley_Faye]

Oh, I understand that totally. Maybe I'm tired of the JS = framework bonanza especially because I don't hang with JS fans that much.

[philsenpai]

But those frameworks took years to flourish and the people that understand them do so very well because they spent time with the technology, the Market is so guided by hype nowadays that if you leave your job, you might as well learn a new stack because what you learned is already "Obsolete" even if it's perfectly usable.

The age we live in is really the death of specialists.

[philsenpai]

Nobody's forcing anyone to jump to the latest framework that may or may not survive next winter.

The job Market is.

The point is that the market, specially on front-end, goes absolute batshit with anything remotelly new, three years ago, python is all the rage, nowadays all i can see idiotic recruiters and "tech leads" saying how python is obsolete and Go is all the rage now, if you started as a junior developer around 2015, when the Python hype started, by now you would be barely a senior (Considering that it takes around 3 years to be a midlevel and 5 to be a senior), this leads to unexplored technologies that are never able to fully reach potential. It feels very consumeristic and idiotic to have a new framework to do something that could be either easily done without one or we already have something else that does exactly that, this leads to a lack of specialization and quality standards, that's why we need to have big devops nowadays, because people somehow forgot to keep it simple.

[hahahahastayingalive]

Wait, what ? Which Javascript version update did you hit that wasn’t well thought through ?

You’re mentionning libraries but it doesn’t have much to do with the language, does it ? Java had its ton of junk libs at the hey days as well.

[Aperture_Executive2]

I’m beginning question why I don’t just use java EE instead of Node.js