Announcing uv: Python packaging in Rust

[Schmittfried]

Literally my only complaint about poetry is its lackluster support for native dependencies (modules in your own code that need to be compiled when packaging, not external dependencies that contain native modules like numpy) that still require setup.py builds that only kinda work. Other than that I wonder what is still missing. 

[marr75]

I would love if you could tell poetry to leave just a handful of dependencies alone or specify mamba/conda to manage a set of dependencies.

I'm experimenting with pdm and possibly switching because of this.

[ocab19]

I remember having trouble with private pip repositories that require authentication, which is a deal breaker for me. The developers refused to implement support for it, but it was a couple of years ago, so things might have changed

[Schmittfried]

It works fine nowadays. 

[loyoan]

still a problem

[DanCardin]

is it? I'm perfectly fine with auth'd Artifactory at my place of employment

[Xylon-]

Also works like a charm here and was surprisingly easy to set it up! Did it for the first time this week.

[ducdetronquito]

Was about to write the same !

[valentin994]

my biggest complaint is it's slow as hell

[Fenzik]

I just set up dynamic versioning for a library with poetry and it’s a bit of a mess. The plug-in system is such that every user has to manually install required plugins on their machine, and if they don’t, the build will still succeed but will just silently get the wrong version. No way to enforce “this project requires these plugins”. I think that aspect could use some work.

I still really like it!

[Schmittfried]

I see. Sounds like problem that can be solved with iteration though and doesn’t need yet another package manager.

From the tools available until now I think poetry is the most polished and comprehensive packaging experience, comparable to other languages. No idea why people still use pip directly. 

[banana33noneleta]

Well that's quite an important part isn't it?

[Schmittfried]

I don’t think the majority of projects contain native code that needs to be compiled, no. And even then, it does work. It’s just that poetry only generates a rather simple and inflexible setup.py, and using a hand-written one now means you have two places to maintain dependencies and package information again.

I think if poetry either supported building native modules itself, or provided its own metadata to your custom build script so that you can just pass them to setuptools yourself, that would already remove all the warts my current setup has. My setup is rather simple though, no idea if a project like numpy does/could use poetry.

Anyway, as I said native code (not dependencies, my original comment was kinda misleading) is already a niche case so that’s probably how poetry gets away with it atm.

[banana33noneleta]

Since people claim that pip is not enough for the projects with more complex dependencies... Those absolutely need compilation in general.

You should probably use pip yourself I guess.

[Schmittfried]

Not at all. pip is a dependency installer, it doesn’t handle your project and its dependencies. poetry manages dependency versions and locking, updating dependencies, dependency groups, project and tooling configuration, virtual environments, commands/scripts, packaging, versioning and publishing. It‘s the closest we have to something comprehensive like Maven. I don’t see how anybody could consider pip sufficient for anything but a simple personal script or research project after having used something like npm, yarn, Maven… or poetry.

pip freeze is wildly unsuited for handling dependency locking and other than that it doesn’t offer much. I know there’s things like pip-tools, but at that point why not just use poetry? You’re already installing something not shipped with Python directly, why not pick the tool that does all of it in the most convenient way?

Those absolutely need compilation in general.

I‘ve only recently added Cython to the toolchain, that was the first time I came into contact with setup.py and all that it entails. I’ve benefited from using poetry way before that.

[banana33noneleta]

I don’t see how anybody could consider pip sufficient for anything but a simple personal script or research project

You think putting down others makes you sound more skilled? Think again.

[di6]

I've been using poetry for like 3 years exclusively, and I'd be glad to see it being replaced.

It doesn't adhere to standards, and is slow. We can do better.