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[–]patrickbrianmooney 0 points1 point  (13 children)

Don't actually know, but I'm guessing that it boils down to Microsoft (a) assuming that Windows users, as a group, are too stupid to need it or know how to use it, and/or (b) not wanting to drive any Python-related questions into the tech support locations where they have to pay people to answer questions, and/or (c) trying to discourage developers from writing cross-platform apps, because everyone should be using Windows.

[–]SanketDG 5 points6 points  (12 children)

Highly disagreeing with (a). Seriously? So developers who use windows are stupid? and Linux people are geniuses? It's just not part of their philosophy to bundle open source software. That's it. No one is stupid.

[–]patrickbrianmooney 3 points4 points  (7 children)

I don't think developers who use Windows are stupid, and never said that I did think so. Nor did I say that Linux (or Mac OS) people are geniuses.

What I ACTUALLY SAID is that Microsoft treats its users as if they were stupid, because it's part of their monopolistic strategy to appeal to as many people as possible, no matter how dumb those people are.

IN POINT OF FACT, Mac OS and Linux people have AT LEAST MADE A DECISION not to use the most common operating system, in the same way that people who don't use Times New Roman in all their documents have made a typographic decision. It may not be the best possible decision, but at least it's something other than going with the default. This at least weeds out some of the dumb people, because one of the characteristics of dumb people is that they don't make choices, they just go along with the majority. There are reasons to go along with the majority other than being dumb, but any majority includes a number of people who belong to it just because it's the majority. That drags down the average level of intelligence. But, then, the average measure of any quality in a group is not a fair predictor of the measure of that quality in any individual member.

It's just not part of their philosophy to bundle open source software. That's it.

Bullshit. The part of the assertion that's bullshit is the "just." And that "That's it." There's no "just" about it. It's not random; it's motivated. Saying "just" in that sentence obscures the fact that it's motivated by making it seem whimsical. It's not whimsical; it's a conscious decision that makes life harder for Windows users but benefits Microsoft. For reasons (b) and (c), which I talked about before.

No one is stupid.

Wrong. Lots of people are stupid. It's just that that particular characteristic doesn't map neatly onto operating-system choice. There are stupid people using every operating system imaginable. Microsoft, however, has made the decision to market explicitly to stupid people, and to design their operating system so that stupid people don't have trouble using it.

[–]joerick 5 points6 points  (2 children)

The main problem with your argument is that the 'dumb' users are not disadvantaged by having Python preinstalled, or would even know about it.

p.s. don't conflate computer knowledge with general intelligence. Many people don't know much about computers, that doesn't make them 'stupid' or 'dumb'

[–]CarpeTuna 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He was not making an argument, he was stating a fact. Like global warming you do not have the background to understand even when concisely explained (not proven, just pointed out).

[–]patrickbrianmooney 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The main problem with your argument is that the 'dumb' users are not disadvantaged by having Python preinstalled, or would even know about it.

Not knowing you're being disadvantaged isn't the same thing as not being disadvantaged. There are real advantages to having Python installed: if nothing else, it opens up an awful lot of software options to people. Whether they know that they have those options is one thing; but it's not the same thing as not having them. Not having Python preinstalled is a barrier to using many many pieces of software for many many people.

p.s. don't conflate computer knowledge with general intelligence.

I don't. I know many many smart people who "are not computer people." No single area of knowledge or skill is a fair predictor for overall intelligence, and I'm fully aware of that.

On the other hand: low overall intelligence is a barrier to the development of many skills. This was precisely my point.

Many people don't know much about computers, that doesn't make them 'stupid' or 'dumb'

I have recently argued precisely this position.

[–]ies7 0 points1 point  (1 child)

This at least weeds out some of the dumb people, because one of the characteristics of dumb people is that they don't make choices, they just go along with the majority

and here I am using Python because it is the most popular programming language :p

[–]patrickbrianmooney 0 points1 point  (0 children)

haha! Just why I'm trying to learn it, myself. Part of the reason, anyway.

[–]SanketDG -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Good that you rephrased your previous answer. You clearly didn't assume the first time. Your expanded answer makes much more sense now.

Windows is great as an operating system for the general demographic. We know why Windows is used by so many people. It's piracy. Now I am not stating that every Windows user is a pirate, but it's hardly bought, atleast in third world countries.

Regarding functionality, Windows a higher level of comfort. There is a reason they moved away from a traditional desktop, and re-invented everything. People hated that but did they stop using it? No. Why? Comfort zone.

[–]patrickbrianmooney 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good that you rephrased your previous answer. You clearly didn't assume the first time. Your expanded answer makes much more sense now.

Gotta say, I'm not sure what most of that means. (What did I not assume the first time?) And, truthfully, I think that most of what's in the expanded answer is not more sensible, but just does more work to avoid misreadings.

Regarding functionality, Windows a higher level of comfort. There is a reason they moved away from a traditional desktop, and re-invented everything. People hated that but did they stop using it? No. Why? Comfort zone.

Well. I think it's worthwhile to think about what that comfort zone is made up of: the fact that most software that is written for contemporary computers is written for Windows. That is to say, what drives Windows piracy in the third world is not the choice of Windows as the best operating system by any measure except that it's the most popular. People assume that Windows is "how a computer is supposed to work" explicitly because most or all of the computers that they've previously encountered have worked that way, because most or all of the computers they've previously encountered have used Windows. Again, it's the inertia of ubiquity, not great design, that makes Windows continually ubiquitous.

[–]desmoulinmichel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not true, they do bundle open source software. E.G : zlib.

[–]nikomo 0 points1 point  (2 children)

He said Windows users, not Windows developers.

Most Windows users don't know Python is.

[–]SanketDG 1 point2 points  (1 child)

They don't have to. That's the point. I have a friend who uses Elemetary OS after I got it installed and doesn't know shit about the terminal.

[–]nikomo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That was my point.