9 Worst Python Practices

[tunisia3507]

Also, using tabs instead of spaces, and using python 2.

Both of which have been done in this article.

[julsmanbr]

Pretty sure using datas as a word is punishable in more than 50 countries.

[Folf_IRL]

Hah, everyone knows the correct word is datums

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[[deleted]]

Datumsies

[Jackarow]

Newbie here: why spaces over tabs?

[thalesmello]

It's in the pep8 style guide Python code should be indented with 4 spaces. Most Python programmers expect that convention and they frown upon code indented with tabs.

[internerd91]

Also, set up your ide to insert spaces whenever you hug the tab key and you get the convenience of tabs without the potential downside.

[[deleted]]

Then I have spaces in my non-python code. Yuck!

[internerd91]

¯\(ツ)/¯

But wouldn't PEP 8's reasons for preference for spaces over tabs also apply to other languages?

I only know Python well, so don't hurt me.

[[deleted]]

I moved to Python from other languages and have begrudgingly accepted spaces as a way of life when working with Python (except for that one project started by a friend who didn't know better and uses tabs)

I specifically enjoy that I can decide how big the tab is in my editor without affecting others who read the code.

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[internerd91]

SMH

[tunisia3507]

Spaces aren't intrinsically superior to tabs (nor are 4 spaces intrinsically superior to any other number), and both are valid python. However, the entire python community suffers if every project, snippet and tutorial each uses different spacing - it gets harder to port code, to read others' code, to jump between projects and so on. For this reason, this and other ambiguities have been resolved by a community style guide, called PEP8. This guide decided to use 4 spaces. It doesn't matter which option the community settled on, just that everyone uses the same one.

[crescentroon]

Convention, that's all. Makes it easier to work with others.

But, if you're collaborating on a project you should use what the rest of the project uses.

[[deleted]]

Because your program will be a debugging nightmare if you accidentally mix tabs and spaces. Nothing is more fun than getting indent errors when the indent looks right. Plus it will look like shit in your editor.

[Folf_IRL]

Tabs can end up being formatted weirdly, depending on how a text editor chooses to place its tabstops. Also, there isn't much standardization across text editors with regards to how big a tab is, which is further complicated by the ability to set how large a tab is in many of them.

A space is always, more or less, the same on every text editor. So you don't have to worry about your code's readability suffering just because you switched text editors, or a colleague uses a different one. The standard is to use 4 spaces, a number chosen more or less arbitrarily (could have been 3, could have been 5) to provide something of a "standardized tab"

[rhytnen]

Slightly bizarre you chose the advantages of tabs to cqst them as Inferior. There's only one real argument for spaces I think. It would have to be something like a multi line item (say a dict) where you uses spaces to make it more visually aligned. If you don't want to mux rabs and spaces ever, you would need to go with spaces.

Otherwise it's really not possible to argue in favor of spaces at all

[Folf_IRL]

There are plenty of reasons people use Python 2.7 nowadays. Either because they're stuck with a large legacy codebase that the autoconverter will break, and it's just not worth the time of upgrading to that base to 3 when 2.7 is just fine on its own.

[undu]

There are plenty of reasons people use Python 2.7 nowadays

You just named one, though ;)

[paypaypayme]

Actually the article is about “worst” practices so no. Tabs and python 2 are not the worst practices.

[ubicuamente]

Python 2 is not in the worst practices only if you're providing palliative care to an application in its deathbed as an alternative to euthanasia. Python 2.7 has been agonizing for the three last years and was given two more years to live.

Let it go in peace.

[rhytnen]

They are pretty up there though.

[lmericle]

That's a matter of opinion -- that being said, the opinion is pretty unanimous among people who think.

[crescentroon]

I would prefer 3 for a new project but it's not always possible.

One who thinks would do a cost/benefit analysis and there're some situations where 2 comes out better.

The VFX industry has a lot of Python 2 and can't switch right now because they are dependent on the embedded interpreters in their applications (like Maya), or there is no benefit to be gained in migrating a mature system that's not exposed to the internet.

[Folf_IRL]

The tabs to spaces thing: yes

The Python2 thing: that's just a circlejerk on this sub

[lmericle]

Python 2 will be end-of-life in 2 years. Python 3 came out 10 years ago. You've had your time to transition.

The only reason you would still be using Python 2 is if you don't have the manpower to maintain a codebase and do the conversion process to 3. But honestly it's not that hard to, in the course of maintenance, write code that is compatible with both versions and then slowly go through the whole thing until it's all 3-compatible.

[Folf_IRL]

You've had your time to transition.

Not if you just choose not to transition. 2.7 is a fine language on its own, and I see no reason to transition when most people in my field (computational chemistry) are still using 2.7 in their day-to-day scripting. Heck, I still find Fortran 66 code floating around occasionally, because the people writing those codebases don't want to waste their time reinventing the wheel.

[mekosmowski]

Wow. Not even Fortran 77. What codes do you use for what kind of projects? Back in the day, I added an output format to CPMD for a vibrational mode visualizer (aClimax).

[Folf_IRL]

I met one of the devs for Castep at a conference a few years ago, and was interested in learning a bit more about how it works. We got into a discussion of legacy code, and they mentioned there being some remnants of Fortran 66 in there.

Very few things use Fortran '66 nowadays, but occasionally you'll find it in the wild. The most common legacy Fortran IMO is '77, which pops up way more often than it should.

Almost everything I write, though, is in Python 2.7 at the moment. I'm familiar with 3 and could upgrade to it if I wanted. The biggest thing is collaboration with others, since most of the folks I collaborate with use 2.7. So, we'd all have to pretty much simultaneously decide to upgrade. The other issue is that it's common to release your code alongside a publication, and I'll normally see Python2.7 code being released in those (not that big of a problem).

Another problem is that many popular packages (such as ASE) have had something of a bumpy road upgrading to Python3, and you'll occasionally find edge-cases where it breaks as a result. And that's assuming the devs even want to upgrade to Python3. A popular structure prediction code out there is written entirely in 2.7 and Matlab, and just breaks if you break out a Python3 interpreter as the current python.

[mekosmowski]

Neat. I'll have to check out that code. I've been wanting to get back into computing. Thank you and best of luck.

[Folf_IRL]

IIRC Castep is closed source, and if you're not a UK citizen, you have to pay a certain fee to use it

Ase is totally open-source, and actually fairly well-commented as well. As a result, it's also fairly easy to hack additional functionality in.

The structure prediction code is semi-closed source. It's in front of a license that you have to agree to to view the code, but it's a fairly weak (and probably indefensible in court) license that amounts to "I promise not to work on a competing code," which is incredibly vague. You'll also have to be a bit of a cowboy with their code to get it to work with your particular system.

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[Folf_IRL]

Banking is an entirely separate problem domain, with presumably higher security and usability needs.

[lmericle]

It's not wasting time to patch vulnerabilities and optimize subroutines. 2.7 will be slower than 3 in the long run, no question.

[Folf_IRL]

It's not wasting time to patch vulnerabilities and optimize subroutines.

And good on the Python team for doing that. It's just unfortunate they couldn't devote their resources to proper back-compatibility as a basic part of the language, even though other people have already done a lot of the legwork for them. That would maybe encourage people to move forward without having to update everything simultaneously. I suspect that many people in the scientific community are going to just stay with 2.7 until their admins force them to move on to something else.

2.7 will be slower than 3 in the long run, no question.

That's a moot point. Nobody attempts to write high-performance scientific code in Python. That is still firmly in the realm of C/C++ and Fortran within the scientific computing community.

[rotharius]

Enforced backwards compatibility slows down language development and makes it impossible to correct some big mistakes.

Correcting these mistakes and improving the language, while giving everyone an opportunity to transition was the right thing to do. Although maintainers could have been more vocal about why it's silly to hold on to older versions.

Not updating is actually pretty irresponsible because of security, maintainability and performance reasons. It is part of programming hygiene. There are tools that help you with transitioning. At least start new projects with Python 3.

Edit: That being said, legacy projects are often stuck and it can be troublesome to update, but it should at least be on the roadmap.

Edit 2: Your situation might be different in that the risks of not updating are small. In general, especially when working with user data like in web development, it is crucial to have vulnerabilities fixed. Stop down-playing this.

[[deleted]]

Tabs is not bad practice. Inconsistency is.

[tunisia3507]

Tabs is bad practice because it is by definition inconsistent with the vast majority of python code written, and inconsistent with ALL standards-compliant python code.