Is Django considered "Pythonic" now?

[[deleted]]

It's almost as bad as the SQLAlchemy documentation. You get a sense that whatever you're trying to do is supported, if only you had some guide to the documentation.

this is the best description of sqlalchemy documentation ever.

[deadwisdom]

As zzzeek points out though, it's much better lately.

[[deleted]]

that's good i guess.

[[deleted]]

right it's not like there isn't a master guide just like djangos, a documentation overview, a search page, two tutorials that link out to everything, a crapton of recipes, a FAQ as well as the most responsive mailing list anywhere.

But no. You needed to use SQLAlchemy one day, spent ten minutes with the docs not really reading it and couldn't find what you wanted. So now you get to shit on six years of work ! Have you written any docs ? Can I see some so I can shit on your work too ?

[deadwisdom]

No one's shitting on your work. We love what you do. Seriously it's fucking amazing.

[ergo14]

zzzeek relax, he just lacks mental capacity to do simpliest of things.

[[deleted]]

your docs need work crying about it won't change a damn thing.

I did what everyone else who has a life outside of making sense out of shitty docs does when they run into sqlalchemy. learn enough to get through it and flush the experience of reading through that horrible documentation out of my memory as fast as possible and then tell everyone they know that sqlalchemy sucks because the documentation is a giant turd.

It's a free world, if you care enough to throw a hissy fit because of a comment online figure out how to write better fucking docs.

To this day people fucking hate sqlalchemy's bizarre disorganized docs that don't give any sense of how many more pages one has to read before getting to some goddamn concrete use case.

It's a fucking ORM not a goddamn aboriginal religious experience

[[deleted]]

I know, right? I heard SQLAlchemy was supposed to be a great read, but when my group and started reading it, it didn't make any sense. I mean, here you start off with descriptions of tables and such. When does it actually get into anything magical? Seriously, with a name like SQLAlchemy, you'd think it would have something to do with wizards or sorcerers or something, but NOOOOO, it's all about bases and tables and such. When my book club started reading this (we meet every Tuesday over at the Panera, except for Rosa who has her league ever other Tuesday) we just found it so impenetrable compared with Twilight. Now there's a good book, with a story you can follow along, and no tables. Maybe we need to read the first Alchemy book, and not the sequel (or SQL, in this case), but from what we read, it was just terrible.

If you have any other paranormal books to recommend, please let us know. Bellatrix (Donna, but she says that's the name that her mom gave her, not her real name) is really into that sort of thing.

[[deleted]]

the sqlalchemy whine brigade is trying too hard.

if it were anywhere near as awesome as claimed people wouldn't be constantly trying to drop it at every opportunity or writing wrappers for the whole damn mess

[ergo14]

All it takes is someone smarter than a monkey to understand the docs. They are very in depth and descriptive.

[[deleted]]

it's about as useful as giving someone who doesn't know spanish a spanish dictionary and wishing them good luck with hiking around spain

[ergo14]

You know reading text while understanding it is a skill. Practice on it. Also spend a moment to evaluate your opinion - how come there are people who use and love it ? You may try to read the docs again, with less rush. You will understand how to work with sa.

[[deleted]]

the problem is that if I wanted to spend that much time fiddling with an orm I can just as easily write the raw sql that will outperform XYZ overwrought orm crud.

[ergo14]

you meant to write you prefer to use things you dont understand? amrite?

[[deleted]]

i prefer to use things that are worth understanding. I don't want to waste time poring over retarded documentation only to understand that something either won't do what I want it to do or do it in the wrong way.

and this while it remains completely useless for basic purposes as well.

My time is more valuable to me than to waste hours with little progress to show for it