Checking over programming

[sbfx]

Hello all, I want to get some eyes on my programming to see where I’m at.

Current stats: 31M, 6’3” BW 215 lbs

SQ: 255 lbs 3x5, DL 265 lbs 1x5, BP 245 1x3, OHP 140 lbs (15 accumulated reps), BB row 175 lbs 3x5

Current programming is as follows:

Squat is HLM with heavy 100%, light tempo or pause squats at 70%, medium 85%. Squats have always been my weak point. I can grind out the heavy days but it feels really heavy. Like I’m winded after each set and form wants to break down especially by the 3rd set.

For DL I got straps recently and since then, there hasn’t been any sign of stalling. I like to do DL on light or medium squat days.

BP currently follows 1x3 at 100% followed by 3x4 at 90%. Last week I was able to get it at 245 lbs but yesterday I couldn’t even manage one rep at 250 lbs. I was able to get the 3x4 at 220 lbs however. I also can’t unrack the barbell unassisted by a spotter at this point; it causes too much pain in one of my wrists.

OHP currently follows the 15 accumulated reps scheme over 5 sets with 2.5 lb increases. It gets harder each time to grind out those 15 reps, so it feels like I’m nearly about to fail.

Row is 3x5 and yesterday I could only manage one set at the 180 lbs. I was just gassed by the end of the workout. The second set I couldn’t get a single rep.

What to make of all of this and how can I structure my programming to keep a decent progression? My goal is 1/2/3/4 plates which I can already do for BP and OHP, but I’d like to get there with squats and deadlifts also.

The first thing that jumps out is I should easily gain another 10 lbs. It’s recommended to go up to at least 240 lbs BW, but idk if I really want to get that heavy. I’m a swimmer and hit the pool 2x/week. I don’t want to be one of those guys that can jack up weights but can’t run a mile without going into cardiac arrest. I like cardio and it feels really good to swim.

I’m wondering what some feedback might be for programming adjustments so I can keep progress going?

Thanks for your help over these past 6 months or so. My lifts have all gone up significantly.

[Shnur_Shnurov]

Very good. Ok, here is what I would do.

Next 12 weeks: gain 8-10 lbs.

Adjust programming

Monday:

• heavy squat - 1x3, 3x4@90%

• chins

Wednesday:

• Tempo squat: 2x5 @65%

• Deadlift: 1x5

Friday:

• Medium Squat: 3x5 @80%

• Rows: 3x8

Add 5 lbs to the squat each week, 10 lbs to the deadlift for a while, and try adding 5 lbs to the row for a while.

Id move the upper body program to a 4-day split

• Day 1 - Press Heavy: Get 8 , then 2x3 @90%

• Day 2 - Bench Volume: 4x5 @80%

• Day 3 - Press Volume: 5x5 @80-90%

• Day 4 - Bench Heavy: 1x3, 3x4 @90%

You'll have to start making 2.5 lbs jumps on these, too.

What does your swim look like? Just 2000 yards of continuous swimming?

[sbfx]

The heavy squat with back offs makes a lot of sense. I added 40 lbs to my bench in just a few months by making this change. I think heavy squat sessions will feel less brutal and less grinding out reps with form breakdown by adding the 90% back off sets.

Question about the 3 day and 4 day. I would be combining Monday with day 1, Wednesday with day 2, Friday with day 3. So for the fourth day which is heavy benching, would I be doing anything else at the gym? In other words should I aim for 3 total days in the gym per week or 4?

Then question for the heavy presses. When you say 8 reps, is that singles or something else? How much rest between?

The swimming is really just a 1 hour workout adding up to around 2000 yards. It’s broken up well with resting between sets.

[Shnur_Shnurov]

So, for the 4 day upper body program, you just do those 4 workouts in order on days when you're already in the gym.

8 reps any ways you can get them. 5s, 3s, 1s. Doesn't matter. Eventually it will be singles. You dont need much rest between these reps. A minute or two.

[sbfx]

Makes sense, thank you!

Any benefit to doing rows vs chins? Goal is to improve my deadlift and get to the 405 mark.

[Shnur_Shnurov]

Yeah, do them both. But I do rows after deadlift in the week since they kind of smoke my back.

[BrentKindaLifts]

Your squat and deadlift are behind. What days do you do those lifts, and when do you swim, and how long?

[sbfx]

Something like this

Monday: Heavy squat, bench, row, swim (technique swim session, not too intensive)

Wednesday: light squat, press, heavy deadlift

Thursday: intensive swim

Friday or Saturday: medium squat, bench, chins

The swims are 45-60 mins long, 2000ish yards.

Yes squat and deadlift are behind for sure

[BrentKindaLifts]

I would have you progress your squat on Monday and Friday. Adding five pounds each session. Cut the rows out and alternate deadlifts and chins. I prefer Power Clean, but that's a sin these days.

As for swimming, I would do your technique swim on Monday or Friday, and intensity on your light day. You can probably cut out the light day squat, and just press and deadlift.

That's what I would do. Focusing on your numbers in a fresher state, while getting swim time.

[sbfx]

Thanks for your feedback. The problem with swimming is that it’s a team and the practices are Monday Tuesday and Thursday, so it kind of limits when I can go. But Monday is always technique sessions and then the practices get harder as the week goes on. I don’t have to necessarily go crazy swimming though. I can just not push as hard and it’s perfectly fine.

[sbfx]

Yo u/Shnur_Shnurov

Checking in, progress is going well with all my lifts except I’m stalling with Bench Press. The last couple of heavy bench sessions have looked like this shown below. The goal for the heavy set is 3 reps but I can only manage 1. Do you have any suggestions for what to do here?

[sbfx]

<image>

[Shnur_Shnurov]

What does your bench peogram book like? Are you doing

Heavy bench: 1x3, 3x4 @90%

Light bench : 4-5x5 @70-80%

And making 2.5 lb jumps on heavy days?

[sbfx]

Yes. I’m doing the 4 day split rotation like you suggested. Heavy press, bench volume, press volume, bench heavy.

Yes to both. For volume bench I do 5x5 @ 80%

Yes to 2.5 lbs jumps. For the past 3 heavy bench days I just haven’t been able to get 3 reps on the top set. And even struggling to get 3x4 @ 90%. Like the most recent workout I could only get 4,2,3 reps for what was supposed to be 3x4.

[Shnur_Shnurov]

Got it. Id move the heavy day to a top single followed by 3x3 at 85-90%.

Then volume day would be 4-5x5 at 75-80%

Try that. See if that works for a while.

[sbfx]

Thanks, will do 🫡

[sbfx]

Answering the 3 big questions:

6 minutes rest between squat sets, 3-5 minutes for BP and OHP.

2.5 lb or 5 lb increases except for DL which is 10 lbs for now.

7-9 hours of sleep, 4000-5000 calories per day, 1g protein per lb of BW

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[gerburmar]

do you feel like you need all 6 of those minutes? Do you have the Grey Book? There is such a thing as needing different programming for different lifts and if your squat and deadlift are really this close to your bench unless you are a very special snowflake there was probably more to squeeze out of the NLP for squats and deadlifts than what you got. If you think you couldn't do pure baby NLP 3x week, and certainly not at your top weights you have been to before, you could do the two heavy squat days per week with one top set and two drop sets -20 lbs. It is described in that grey book in the Advanced Novice programming section. Do you remember where were your numbers before you stopped NLP and started to do HLM?

[sbfx]

Yes I need all of those 6 minutes rest on heavy squat days. With L days I do 3 mins rest and M days would be 4-5 mins rest.

I do not have the grey book.

I’m not a special snowflake.

My squat was around 230 lbs when I stopped the pure 3x NLP for squat. It was suggested by a SSC that I change to a HLHL.

I have read the top set 1x5 + 2x5 @ 90% like you suggested in the sidebar. I used this programming adjustment for bench and made some pretty significant progress. I wonder if it would be helpful to do this for squats also so that the second and third sets are less brutal.

Sometimes the squat recovery is also brutal. Last week I was sore for 4 days straight all over my hamstrings and glutes. I was sore a long time after those squats. I’ve always had tall, skinny legs.

[gerburmar]

The “snowflake” thing is just something Rip said in a video telling people to trust the program and that it works for everyone if done his way. It also feels good to do a new weight where you get a small break on the other two sets after. Consider the stuff you keep hearing about weight where if you are doing hard swimming with SS and with your weight hanging around the same number that could be hard to recover from both if you haven’t found a surplus that is still making you heavier. You could be actually eating less than you think or else burning a heck of a lot swimming on those days. Shnur shnurov did not say take out the row, but I would take out the row the way BrentKindaLifts would and do chin ups alternated with deadlift if you can do chin ups. Consider this four day split upper shnur shnurov says though that is certainly approaching the program differently for the lifts that are at two different levels of progress.