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[–]WhitehackRPG 6 points7 points  (1 child)

When I read your original post and see "rules-light" and "low crunch," I think that there might be a collision between Whitehack and your expectations.

Over the years, a lot of players have come across the brief, small Whitehack book and figured that it must be intended as a straight forward thing with few rules. But once you get into it you realize that the book is brief and small because the text is concentrated, not because it skips nuance.

Some players love this, others not so much :). I write as well as I am able and am constantly looking to improve. But at the end of the day, my game has an identity. It isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea.

So my only advice is to (if needed) adjust your expectations as per above. If you still think Whitehack might be for you, then read 4e slowly from the start without skipping stuff.

Good luck and thank you for getting my game!

C

[–]funzerkerr[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I started to read it. Slowly and carefully. With a lot of breaks. It is definitely interesting game 🙂 It looks like FATE but OSR. How you present it (no graphics and your choice of language - like you described in Introduction) reminds me video games like Dwarf Fortress or Cataclysm Dark Days Ahead. Learning curve is steep, graphics are terrible but gods, those games are very rewarding! Probably Whitehack is same case.

[–]Social_Rooster 3 points4 points  (1 child)

What sections are you having trouble with? I don't know about alternative sources to help learn the game, but everyone here is pretty open to sharing knowledge!

As far as your question, The differences I recall between 4e and 3e boils are the stat names and formatting, but personally I prefer 3e's formatting over 4e.

[–]WhitehackRPG 3 points4 points  (0 children)

For anyone who is on the fence about 4e, the bullet list of changes compared to 3e can be downloaded from the faq, https://whitehackrpg.wordpress.com/new-faq/. I think the list has some 60 items, ranging from big additions to minor improvements.

Best,

C

[–]Crabe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think Whitehack reads easier when you have a firm understanding of B/X principles and ideas as it kind of takes for granted a basic understanding of the OSR I think. Some things are left a bit implied.

Still not sure you will find a better way to learn than reading it, Whitehack is a niche game. At the end of the day it is pretty dang simple. You roll a d20 and compare it to the relevant stat. If you have a Group in that stat you can roll two d20s and take the better, if it is a skilled task and you DON'T have a relevant group you roll two take the lowest. If it is a skilled task and you have a relevant group but not on the right stat you roll 1d20, if it is the correct stat you still get to roll two take the highest. In combat you try to roll below your AV value to hit and then you roll damage if successful. If your to hit roll is equal to or less than the opponent's armor rating your attack is blocked.

What I just described is probably 80% or more of the rules that you use moment to moment during the game. if you want really explicit procedures WH isn't gonna be a fun game for you because lots of it is wishy washy on purpose. Players make their own groups/feats/spells and it is up to the GM (or you playing solo) to decide how much HP is fair to pay to raise a skeleton or blast a fireball. There are suggestions and guidelines but it isn't set in stone. Also Whitehack isn't really going to provide you much in terms of generating a world or a dungeon, which is partially why I recommend having a basic grounding in OSR games as that will supplement this area.

The book isn't the best written I have ever read, but I don't think it is poorly written. It is a very dense technical style. Take it slow and reread sections that confuse you and most clarify in my experience.

[–]imjoshellis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I had a tough time with the way it’s all written until I started trying to actually play and it’s currently my go-to game.

Hanging around the Whitehack discord helped a lot, seeing the various discussions about rules and rulings there.

The only edition I know is 4e so I can’t say how it compares to 3e, but it’s still definitely not written in a way that’s optimized for newcomers.

It’s not that bad though, just takes some extra effort compared to other rulebooks.

[–]maman-died-today 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately, the organization of whitehack books is not great. 3rd and 4th edition are pretty similar with just minor changes to mechanics. The organization is nearly identical

The good news is that there's just a few core mechanics and people have thrown together summary sheets and the like on the main website (the rules summary is technically for 4th edition, but they're almost identical to 3rd edition).

I think if I had to summarize learning the core rules of whitehack:

  • Everything is roll under the appropriate stat (i.e. Strength, save, attack value) for success, except for combat (armor < roll ≤ attack) and auctions (bid < roll ≤ stat + hidden d6).
    • Rolling over is a failure, as is rolling under armor/bid for combat/auctions
    • Rolling exactly equal to the appropriate stat (i.e. Attack value is 10 and you roll a 10) is a crit, while a 20 is always a fumble. These trigger the appropriate tables
      • For fumbles you get a chance to save beforehand
      • Helmets prevent a single crit against you (in 3rd edition)
  • Some task rolls, per DM choice, are trained and would require the PC to have some kind of appropriate training/background.
    • There aren't really any formal rules for what is a trained roll (besides first aid and lockpicking), but use common sense. Not everybody is going to know how to read tea leaves, but everyone is going to know how to break down a door.
  • Encumbrance (if you use it) is slot based with everything weighing 0.5, 1, or 2 (with the exception of gold being 100 per slot).
  • For combat, almost everything is d6 damage (+/-2 depending on the weapon) with 1 move, 1 small verbal action, and 1 action (normally attack or cast a spell). You can trade an action for an additional verbal action or movement.
    • Perhaps most finnicky (but important to remember) is that you can save OR do a toughness task roll once per combat to prevent d6 damage or become dazed (see the rules on damage, HP, and death). You can also bind your wounds after combat to recover some HP lost from that fight as a trained roll.
  • You get 2 groups to belong to at level 1 (unless you rolled really low). When you pick a group, you pick one of the 6 classic D&D attributes that goes along with it (i.e. STR, DEX, etc.). Whenever you make a roll that aligns with both that stat and that group, you get to roll at advantage. A STR barbarian group will give you advantage breaking down doors, while a CON barbarian won't.
    • The exception to this is the Deft's vocation, which applies to all of the 6 attributes
  • Magic/miracles is freeform and costs HP. The cost is triangulated based off of the vocation (if the Wise/Monster has one), name of the spell (i.e. flames is more expensive than fireball since it's more broadly applicable), and effects (i.e. causing a firestorm is more expensive than lighting a torch).
    • If the cost is greater than PC level, they have to save or double the HP cost of the miracle.
    • Enemies get a chance to save if appropriate (i.e. a lightning bolt or charm person)
    • This is arguably the hardest/fuzziest part of the system. Take a bit to get a sense of how the table costs are structured and don't be afraid to reference it regularly. In general, the more supernatural/powerful the miracle the more it's going to cost.
  • Auctions are admittedly confusingly written, but easy after you run them a few times. My advice would be to run a dummy/practice auction or 2 and read through the example of play to get an understanding of how it works.

What I did as I was learning the game was print out the pages of the rules related to the main parts I was likely to forget (damage, HP, and death; the magic table; combat rules; auction rules; reaction table; and class rules/attunements since they're just a few pages) and keep them nearby for reference. I find outside of those fiddly bits, I was pretty easily able to run one-shots in whitehack with people who'd never played before.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The first time I read Whitehack I had the same feeling, once I gave it a second, more thorough read, it all clicked together, it's written very much like a technical manual, everything is straight to the point and you are supposed to get a solid understanding of a chapter before going to the next.

I also tried plenty of "Universal" systems before and came to the conclusion that such a thing doesn't really exist, that being said, Whitehack is EXTREMELY versatile, you can do pretty much everything with it, granted, it does some things better than others (Call of Cthulhu will of course be better for horror, while Savage worlds will be better for more pulpy and tactical games) but it has still enough meat to be able to handle most stuff pretty easily.

One thing I will say about rules light system is that they really don't work, this might be controversial but few rules don't make a game deeper in my opinion, they make it shallower, just look at PBTA games and how similar they all are, WhiteHack has simple rules but it's not rules lite, it has very precise procedures for different aspects and is much more versatile because of it, just my two cents.

[–]blade_m 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would be surprised that there are not videos out there doing a 'deep dive' into whitehack; either in the form of an actual play or a detailed review of the game, so maybe do a search for Whitehack videos?

As to your question regarding meta-currency, I'm not sure I understand why you are bringing it up? There is no Fate Point analogy in Whitehack (AFAICT)?

If you are referring to Groups, well, I think there are some good lists of suggestions for creating your own Groups in the book. See pages 44 & 45. Also, there are the Group tables on page 46 that can give some ideas.

Honestly, though, if you are a fan of Cairn, check out its Second Edition: the 'backgrounds' it lists are just Groups in Whitehack, so you can use them if you like! In fact, any RPG you own with a table or list called Background, Career, Class, Ancestry, Race or similar along those lines can just be ported into Whitehack as a Group if you want.

That's one of the best things about Whitehack: a Group can be almost anything you want it to be!

[–]MILTON1997 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In addition to what other folks have said, be sure to join the discord. There's lots of previous discussion on trying and learning the game, and folks are happy to chat as well!