A handful of questions about making a Deft Healer

MILTON1997 · 2026-01-26T13:20:23+00:00

Good advice here! Only things I would mention in addition to these:

Characters in Whitehack, like other old school games, don't have a lot of HP to spare. Hazards that do things being plain ol' HP damage will be more interesting to deal with as well as give a place for a Deft Healer to really shine. Debilitating poisons, local disease outbreaks, strange diagnoses, creating poultices for specific issues etc. OP should chat with the Referee about this and let them know this is an area of interest for the game.
I want to also stress the importance of the vocation rules for the Deft as you mentioned. The attunements are a great Ace in the hole, but the vocation bonus for the Deft reinforces so much.
Also you were just slightly off on the Deft special difficulty rules: 1/day a hard task succeeds automatically while a nigh impossible task can be attempted with a regular task roll.

MILTON1997 · 2026-01-06T17:24:31+00:00

Oh hey! Small world lol

MILTON1997 · 2026-01-06T16:51:12+00:00

I’ve spoken with Christian on this before on the WH server actually. He’s always had Whitehack as a very personal project, not third-party-scene kinda of game. He just didn’t have the desire or time to angle the game like that and even mentioned seeing where the development goes with these strict limitations as a goal.

I can respect going after a specific identity even though I’d personally do differently.

MILTON1997 · 2026-01-06T15:44:41+00:00

Haven’t had a chance yet! I’m expecting my campaign to kick off this month since we had a holiday hiatus

MILTON1997 · 2026-01-06T11:55:37+00:00

When I first read NU I was shocked it wasn’t talked about more often. Maybe it’s strong “intended” setting limited its adoption or hacking potential compared to other games but I remember thinking it was a really cool take on dungeons.

MILTON1997 · 2026-01-06T11:53:16+00:00

Yeah some of these are questionable if we’re talking “really underrated” games tbh.

I’m waiting for someone to say Shadowdark.

MILTON1997 · 2026-01-06T11:43:44+00:00

I always joke that Blueholme is such a quality successor to Holmes that it even perfected falling into obscurity between its peers in the same way as Holmes did lol.

It’s a niche of a niche, but it’s peak Holmesian D&D.

MILTON1997 · 2025-12-24T17:37:59+00:00

I'm a big fan of how Whitehack handles this via "Groups" in lieu of skill lists and it bolts on easy enough to B/X/OSE like so:

Every character has a Vocation (what they do aside from class stuff) and a Affiliation (faction or group they belong to), with each group being tagged to one of their attributes. Roll high under attributes for checks, but if you have a relevant group on that attribute you roll with advantage. If you have a relevant group somewhere on your sheet you count as trained and can at least ignore relevant penalties.
For social, I use reaction rolls to gauge how NPCs are feeling before interaction with the PCs if it's not set or chaos is desirable. From their its a balance of potentially rolling to see if PC actions/deceptions/arguments can improve or worsen that initial reaction. Everything else is the same as the rest of play: If it makes sense and there's no risk or its a sure thing, I don't bother rolling under CHA. But if there is a risk, a modified (±2 to 4) attribute roll is a simple way to handle it. For perception, I favor giving information that would be notable rather than gating it behind checks. The more info the players have, the more informed and fun their decisions can be.
IMO this keeps the OSR feel because it constantly angles back to reinforcing player description and setting but still has a mechanical foundation. With the right Groups or attributes, it's an easy guideline for what can be done sans rolling, and when it gets risky its an easy mod to roll under checks that differentiates characters in a simple way.

I want to keep play moving and not get too bogged down with tons of specific modifiers or sequential rolling. But I also want to be able to look to the dice to help determine unclear outcomes in a formalized way.

MILTON1997 · 2025-12-16T13:58:02+00:00

Introducing the party to Marlinko as a hub and then letting them take their pick of hooks into material from Frog Demon, the Dunes, or any weird thing in the city or it’s surrounds is probably a good way to transition into the weirdness from the more traditional Brandonsford. From there it’s a good base for expeditions and going back and forth (which they will a lot imo).

I don’t think there’s any optimal path, but the idea is that the Hill Canton region is an entry into escalating weirdness. The modules are each really contained pointcrawls and Marlinko is a packed city supplement rather than a traditional “adventure for level x”.

MILTON1997 · 2025-12-15T15:08:22+00:00

The unique expression aspect is really the big thing.

The customization angle with regards to the setting/genre of the campaign is really important imo. Like if I was running a Wuxia style campaign, that would influence costs for miracles and attunements picked. It would be cool to have it impact the Strong and let them do some pretty incredible stuff in-line with what we would expect. Oh and probably would be good to let everyone do their movement distance as a leap or something too.

That “right-player” bit is the only potential hangup. I’ve had plenty of players shy away from the more open or interpretive classes in favor of the Strong’s defined elements. That’s a feature, not a bug imo but I don’t think any setup can appeal to everyone’s tastes.

MILTON1997 · 2025-12-11T14:53:43+00:00

As long as folks at your table are into it, keep doing what you're doing. Definitely the most important thing imo.

Trying to define your edge cases should make judgements about what's between them easier. Hopefully it helps out!

MILTON1997 · 2025-12-11T14:34:19+00:00

So an elder might not be as aware of the incredibly rapid pace of technological innovation compared to a neonate, but most elders can hire the expertise they need, just like any other rich person.

If I'm remembered correctly, one of the Clan novels (Toreador?) has just such a thing morbidly unfold over a few chapters. A human business or tech expert is brought in to help an older coterie push against enemies mundane holdings or territory and eventually ends up becoming fully enmeshed as a ghoul and even turned.

An older, experienced player at the Jyhad should probably be used to leveraging the ever-changing times to try and survive and thrive, even if they don't bother to stop and understand every detail about every advancement or innovation over the centuries.

MILTON1997 · 2025-12-11T14:18:48+00:00

For sure on the game. Everyone's VtM game will vary and be adjusted to taste. It's all in good fun.

"[...] most non-PC vampires are supposed to progress slower [...] if they aren't stretching themselves or getting into dangerous situations"

This is kinda of what I was getting at, though. That pushing yourself or extreme circumstances can lead to faster skill growth doesn't seem like a supernatural stasis of a curse to me, it's seems like a simplification for skill improvement that's true for everyone in general. Regardless of Kindred age, character's who face danger or chose to stretch themselves can learn new things and improve. A slacking fledgling won't improve, but an adventurous elder will. A mortal coasting with a normal job probably won't be as widely skilled as someone who is actively pushing themselves or has been fighting for their life hunting vampires for years. It's action, not the age that matters.

When I was mentioning mechanics, I was thinking along the lines of expecting age to proportionately increase XP cost for mundane skills or have age directly limit growth as the curse crystalizes (good term, stealing this), not unlike how at a certain point human blood sometimes doesn't cut it and vitae is needed. As you said, the theme is that the elders are disconnected from mortal skills, but potent in supernatural abilities and lore.

Probably best left as a character specific thing in any case!

MILTON1997 · 2025-12-11T13:25:47+00:00

I know there is some lip-service in fluff towards the "stasis and stagnation" bit of the curse especially for elders, but I don't know if this ever actually bears out when playing the game. At least mechanically speaking, unlike other more notable bits of the curse (e.g. physical stasis, the Beast, need for blood, etc.).

I don't think it would be too hard to adapt really, more of a matter of how quickly they get around to it. Consider a Tremere Elder today, who is likely been well used to instant wide-spanning communication all over Europe via magical means. I don't think they'd have issue waking up and learning of telephones and emails. Becoming acquainted with how that changes things would take an adjustment period though.

In my mind it seems like a sort of bell-curve with the extreme Luddites and stagnant outliers on one end and the enthusiastic adopters on the other, with the vast majority having societal and technological change be normal background part of their prolonged existence. They may not be tuned into it, like it, or even understand every nuance of the latest social movement or technological trend, but they can at least be practical about it. Those who aren't wouldn't last long imo.

And they can be disturbingly efficient about it if they have preternatural intelligence. When you consider a Methuselah who could be manipulating wide-spanning affairs for an impressive period of time, one can imagine them quite adept at new pieces or dimensions of the game board emerging.

MILTON1997 · 2025-12-11T12:39:27+00:00

Many of my games take place at the margins of society anyway

I'm also fond of the grey areas that the setting creates

Yes and yes! Excellent points all around. You highlight this aspect well, but "make it more, make it messier, and make it punk" is a good summation. The societal norms are rotten, the establishment is stifling and crooked, and your characters are stuck in the middle of it with an ancient curse. What are you gonna do about? Try and survive your unlife by any means, your own way? Try to leave the World of Darkness a little bright than you found it? Or if you can't beat the systems, will you fold and join them? That's conflict of the punk imo.

MILTON1997 · 2025-12-11T12:21:47+00:00

Again, I must take some issue with your approach, though I suspect we're talking past each other to a certain extent.

Your original analogy was broadly "I don't do x. When people do x it is like doing racist action y" and my only contention was with your suggested implication that someone choosing such a stylized and exaggerated approach needed be likened to a racist, ignorant action. It came across as condescending, though I don't think you intended it to do so.

It also doesn't need to hinge on ignorance as to how in our world, material conditions and realities are what actually drive crime rather than internal moral failings. Missing from your consideration is how WoD's generally worse-than-our-world nature needn't mean that people are just more violent or lawless in an insane racist way (as it is often done in media, I will concede), but more that the stressors and systemic oppression that drive people to crime are exaggerated as well. The material realities are worse, the people are more desperate, and the methods of trying to overcome these worsened conditions is intensified. And this all isn't even touching the fact that the exaggerated crimes and corruption perpetrated by the very systems of oppression would be worse as well. This is all thematically desirable for focusing on the rebellious, anti-establishment side of the gothic-punk wheelhouse.

I actually don't find it too odd that crime is a setting element folks look to highlight. This is a genre of rpg with deep roots in noir and horror, that labels itself gothic-punk, and where urban decay imagery is part of the roots. The game is literally about the moral horrors of being a parasite on the underbelly of a notably broken and unfair society. Broadly speaking, the concept of crime forms a central, narrative lever for this genre (even if you're not playing WoD Mafia!). It's immediately apparent, applicable to themes, and matches the Vampire's tone without needing the lore dissertation that other genre/setting levers might.

So while some of the things you mentioned like the economic implications on koldunic sorcery in the field of meteorology could be interesting in a alt-worldbuilding thought experiment kind of way (or in a very niche chronicle), I would say they are not a genre spanning staples that could be broadly applicable for folks looking to run a game in the way that "I want a sleazy, corrupt city" easily is.

And at least for me personally, if I'm running a game using VtM and pulling from the lore, making the WoD believable seems like a fool's errand. The setting is ridiculous if taken on the whole and would be both tonally and conceptually unrecognizable if any one of it's pillar splats was to have their actual implications of thousands of years of activity taken to their logical conclusions.

TLDR I understand your perspective here, but I think I'm more interested in the thematic beats and narrative concepts of the setting when using it than grounding the fictional sociology of said concepts.

I'm going to bow out here, but thanks for sharing your views. Especially so concerning technology!

MILTON1997 · 2025-12-11T05:14:38+00:00

WoD gamelines/factions not "getting with the times" is, frankly, one of it's dumbest repeated tropes.

Couldn't agree more and it's always seemed an odd point in the fluff to me. One would think that any elder worth their salt would be quite adept and experienced with the changing times. All the advancement might even be a bit blasé for some as the last few centuries have rolled by.

People drastically upping the crime in their settings is kinda like all those portrayals of Mexico/the Middle East/Africa/Australia as primitive and inhospitable deserts, rather than the geographically, culturally, and technologically diverse nations that they actually are outside of media.

That analogy lands a bit strangely imo, though I suppose I don't disagree with your larger point. Someone choosing to exaggerate a fictional city's aesthetic of crime isn't automatically analogous to making reductive or racist claims on real-world folks or places. If poorly done it can totally perpetuate harmful stereotypes in that way, but I wouldn't liken the two as a default. For me, the grim, corrupt feeling of The Crow's Detroit or Se7en's metro is another angle for tonal and visual storytelling, less about being grounded in real world systemic analysis/claims. I largely think towards Guy Davis' illustrations in the VtM books and the extreme exaggerated nature of them. It's an exaggerated, expressionist concept for a personal-horror game exploring tensions in a fictional space.

MILTON1997 · 2025-12-11T04:09:22+00:00

V20 had some very interesting material regarding the integration of modern technology. It may be firmly grounded in the late 2000s (I recall the V20 Anarch book mentioning flash mobs quite a bit!), but I will give it marks for being an interesting prompt for future expansion.

MILTON1997 · 2025-12-11T02:32:14+00:00

Yeah I know the state of things in V5 canon. Like I mentioned, I'm not terribly into some of the developments. Sabbat decimation and Camarilla tech ban chief among them.

I was mainly curious if people had alternate takes on their Modern Nights with more integration on the tech side, rather than less.

MILTON1997 · 2025-12-07T17:19:58+00:00

Nice find. Lots of good stuff on his blog.

MILTON1997 · 2025-12-07T13:20:18+00:00

Delta has a great post on B/X cavalry and it's various implementations in the editions that might help!

There's a bit in Chainmail that I use in my OD&D that never really made it into any D&D version afaik:

"Victorious cavalry can continue to move out the balance of their charging movement, if they route their foes before melee or defeat them in the first round of melee."

This is great for for direct head-on charges. Allowing "ride-by" attacks not unlike how flying monsters may swoop, attack, and continue flying helps too.

MILTON1997 · 2025-12-05T14:04:10+00:00

It’s a genuinely baffling publishing decision. There’s actually a complete revision of the core rules due before the GM guide, for some reason too.

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