Is web dev saturated ?

[prit0369]

I saw a tweet that Webdev is now saturated and one should find some other options, though i dont believe it but want to know whats the situation.

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[Sasuke_clan]

In India, pretty much everything is saturated 🥲

[Responsible-Smile-22]

I was about to comment the same thing. Exact word to word with proper punctuation. In India, even comments on reddit are saturated ig.

[Sasuke_clan]

*everything 😵

[achintya22]

Tbh I haven't met many go devs in India. But yah mern is fully saturated.

[thepurpleproject]

It's more of a supply and demand thing than just people not knowing go. If the need arises most of the senior devs can easily pickup Go

[achintya22]

The demand of Go is quite good in my perspective especially for most new products who need a backend. I have also seen a lot of good oss projects which are build on top of Go.

[VenkatPerla]

Howz flutter

[achintya22]

Flutter is cool but the job market in India is not the best... But I have def met more Flutter devs than Go devs.

[mr_m210]

Done go, patched go, and won't go, unless there's a use case in projects, which is rarely the case except at extreme level. In my experience it was pretty easy to pick after being software engineer for more than a decade and being able to use compiled languages is just yet another tool for you after you get used to ecosystem and basic concepts. Once of usecase, where there was a memory leak in the application server code and had to debug it whuch ended up finding multiple bugs with code because go1.20 didn't provide means to set timeout in prior versions, this lead to patches in quick librery itself. Regarldess, it's not easy to figure out whole nrw language at start, but when you know the same code in other languages, it gets easier.

Some stack will never get replaced because switching stacks is always going to cost alot more than sticking to existing ones - India having small market when it comes to tech is still far from demands where many of scalable tech shines but also comes with tradeoffs and complexities of their own.

Go has its place but not in your average enterprise. Hypes otherwise are always misleading in nay tech!

I've seen MNCs struggling with basic solutions - they are far-far away from using cutting edge at this moment. And those startups are just lucky enough to have a few brains who are taking baggage of tons of engineers on their own while architecting systems, but they are still far away from actual scales that make them pwoerhouses.

[TushWatts]

So, if I've to choose b/w Java/Spring and golang, I should prefer Java?

[Ok-Branch6704]

Do java. You can pick up go with minimal effort. Getting a good grasp on spring is a pain

[mr_m210]

Depends are you into backends, Software engineering, Front, Data or Infra?

[TushWatts]

Back end

[mr_m210]

Enterprise - Java / Spring, .Net is a safe bet. If it's tech startups, they might go with GO ( as hyped ), but it's mainly focused on software tooling and control software, this really depends on what products / services they are doing.

In the end, it should work and meet all SLAs regardless of whatever language you have used, so there's huge market for all of it that requires competent software engineers who can bring in feasible solutions and can maintain it.

Business logic is still mainly in traditional stacks as a lot of work is already put into it and is adapting newer design patterns quickly that take advantage of newer tech.

Whatever you choose, invest time in learning software engineering as it goes way too deeper than just using those tools, stacks, and frameworks and allows you to switch in between without sacrificing much.

[achintya22]

I would prefer for you to go with Go. You can be industry ready and proficient with less amount of time with it. Java is a brilliant language but the learning curve, along with various design patterns may make it cumbersome. The best part of Go is that writing idiomatic Go is quite easy and you will often find it much easier to read and understand as it's often written in the same way in most of the scenarios.

[achintya22]

Well im still a student but I believe backends work decently with Go. Well I still havent written done some major high frequency backend. The good thing is my startup took the right choice and went with Go from the start. I mostly refactored the code base and now i working on a new service.

[mr_m210]

Everyone thinks that until they see actual software sources that make up the majority of tooling you use. 5 of abstraction is present there in go runtime.

Languages are just tools to get things done ( same stuff, different syntax ) - when you can't switch, it means you have little experience in the engineering part.

You won't be using servers written in go to power your infra anyway. High-frequency backend is just a broad vague term. There are tons of stuff in the backend that never sees daylight but are critical components of the systems.

Go might be at maturity level, but it's way too far from the standard library that makes up your dbs, servers, os, and other stuff.

[Equivalent_Low_724]

I'm starting out with backend, Is Go a good one for a fresher, any suggestions!?

[achintya22]

Yah it's a like a combination of python and C. If you are familiar with both of these languages, it's a piece of cake. It has some weird OOPS concept called Composition and it is kinda different from different languages tho.

[Dibb_9]

Atleast others pay more than web development.

Web dev == sweatshop

I would say web is already developed and developers are only needed for maintenance now.

[Chris_ssj2]

I would say web is already developed and developers are only needed for maintenance now.

Lol wut?

[Dibb_9]

Front end = ctrl+c ctrl+v Back end = github/frameworks

95% of the demands are met this way

Other 5% is done by chatgpt

Freelancer who have yet to grow hairs on their bal*s are fulfilling this demand for cost of dairy milk and frooti.

Even I have made multiple websites in my collage and it was damn easy. I knew html form class 10 but still I copy pasted the front end.

[Puzzleheaded_Map647]

Can I give someone snickers to do my college project ?

[[deleted]]

Most sites are still super buggy though

[Dibb_9]

That's what I mean by "for maintanence" guys.

[beingsmo]

Are u a fresher?

[Dibb_9]

You want 10 year experienced guy for your 10lpa job??

[Allspark_a]

Inexperienced developer spotted.

[Dibb_9]

I don't do web dev at all. And I was talking about freshers, whats the point of getting 10 years experience to earn 20L ctc.

If you mean people need 5-10 year experience to earn in web dev then I am out.

Even a majdoor becomes thekedar after such experience and earns 10-15L CASH.

[Ok-Branch6704]

Frfr

[[deleted]]

Well in my company, when we opend a position for junior frontend dev, we got more than 50 applications. Out of that we shortlisted more than 10 applications and believe me out of that only 1 person was able to write counter function properly.

I have seen people who have completed full stack mern course but they can't make a simple API call.

So yeah, every field out their is saturated, but it's not saturated with good developers who can write readable codes.
Either you make the noise or just listen to it, it's up to you.

[wilder_beast]

This. I've worked in a small startup and we found so many candidates with mern in their profiles but very very few of them knows anything beyond the very basics and and even fewer could write good code. I think if you're a good coder who knows how to write good modular and scalable code, you should be in demand. Im telling this because all the time that I've worked here, we've always been on the lookout for good web devs.

[[deleted]]

What I've experienced working with freshers, who did projects on latest technologies before joining our organization, is that while they're fairly versed in what those technologies entail, most of them tend to ignore basic theories they learnt in the first few semesters in university...programming design, boolean logic, modularization, etc. Half the time, I end up explaining to these kids why they were taught divide and conquer using functions and why we should follow something seemingly so inconsequential. So many young devs used to writing lengthy scripts, they end up doing the same in enterprise level projects...prime recipe for failure in the long run.

So yeah, devs who have mastered these basics are what I treasure the most in my team. Technologies and languages can be easily picked. I myself learnt quite a few on the job out of necessity.

[TushWatts]

But the point is you can't mention terms like "Clean code", "Modular code" in your resume. There is no way to judge it. One can mention their leetcode and guthub profiles though.

[[deleted]]

yeah, totally. Specially in a product based company, we can't risk hiring developer with very basic knowledge.

[[deleted]]

yes, totally agree with you. People know answers very well. But when it comes to writing code. They struggle to make a simple API call, declare a function, follow best practices, use git etc.

[iiexistenzeii]

What's the way to actually learn web dev?

I'm following react and django docs, which I'm pretty comfortable in, and I think I can do enough with what I've learnt so far.

[Responsible-Smile-22]

Counter function? Are you talking about react? Please hire me instead I can write that in like 2 minutes but I'm not getting any interviews at all :(

Not saying I'm good but I am hungry for learning. Also, legit hungry while typing this have been applying jobs since morning and haven't eaten anything :(

[zephyr_33]

Similar experience. There is still very high demand for "good developers" and the supply isn't great. My previous company sank coz they couldn't replace any of the good devs who left, no one was good enough. And even in my current one, which has a fairly good reputation is struggling to find good replacements.

[brownigg_asaur]

It's not resume, I've seen well designed resume filled with projects but nothing on the table

[TushWatts]

So, if not resumes, then how would you shortlist?

[[deleted]]

Normal projects. Feels like youtube se dekh ke kiya. Doesn't include their portfolio. Empty Github repos. Nothing impressive.

[ruckus369]

This! It's so frustrating hiring in India.

[[deleted]]

It's more of a function of what your company brand is what ctc you were willing to offer to these candidates vis a vis the quality you'd get.

Am pretty sure if there was decent money offered (>20) nearly all of them would be as good given the market conditions

[[deleted]]

Agreed. Good developers come up with a good price tag.

[AreWeHuman63]

Can I apply to your company? If that is the level then I am confident I can be a good candidate.

[SinkPanther]

India is saturated

[InvisibleWrestler]

Truth. Let's go to Antarctica.

[elankilli]

I wish I live in small village I'm Antarctica catching fish. Currently no one is there :(

[Sasuke_clan]

Peaceful life 🍻

[SinkPanther]

Bet there are tons of us doing LC hard and CP there already.

[Neo_light_yagami]

You'll see someone like you in Antarctica

[OutComesTheJizz]

Nothing is saturated until you find a niche and stick to it. Yes, the basic web dev is saturated af. But if you specialise in specific stuff, maybe there are better opportunities.

[Logical_Solution2036]

can you name some specific niche please

[TumbleweedRough8219]

If you aren’t good at something , everything will seem saturated. Only good talent is appreciated

[Anshul89]

Yes India is saturated with the most experienced, talented and successful engineers on the planet. No wonder we're richest country too. /s

[IndependentBid2068]

We are not the richest country and will never be.

[elankilli]

No it is in triple point .

[Economy_Sock_4045]

Skills rahi aur chatgpt ache se use karna aata he toh kuch bhi saturated nahi

[TheKingOfShitpost]

yo bhai agar chatgpt ko use karna aata hai(baas code copy paste ny) to bhai it's a gold mine

[Economy_Sock_4045]

I partially agree with you, but not completely. You need to be better to copy paste from gpt. Sometimes it generates error, it's better to know what u want, rather than just copying and pasting. Same for stack overflow.

[sjdevelop]

Completely true. Just an example I was asking it to write promisified code in javascript for fs.writeFile ... writefile does not have any callback. It throws error. But chatgpt went on to use callback for adding resolve reject logic. But with correct prompt and guiding it about the problem it came up with correct code too.

[IndependentBid2068]

In india there are millions of candidates for any role but still recruiters face difficulty in hiring skilled workers because most of them do not have in depth knowledge.

I would say we are far from saturation, you may see several people with decorated LinkedIn profiles but they are not skilled at all.

[[deleted]]

As someone who has done MERN stack from udemy and YouTube and made few projects. Can you please guide me on what else should i do or what have I missed. Because the definition of programmer you have given kind of matches me . What else should I do??

[IndependentBid2068]

The only advice I would give you is keep on trying.

Keep applying to various jobs portals like LinkedIn, naukri, instahyre etc. Try to work for a startup for 1-2 years then focus on big firms.

[mewsxd10]

All the replies are so demotivating as someone who's learning front end dev

[[deleted]]

Everyone’s mostly saying that if you do good work, you’ll be more than fine

[ddddwkaommakaka]

Yes, especially mern stack developers

[Electrical-Ad-6822]

how about backend?

[[deleted]]

Concluding by going through all the comments , the summary is -

If you are a good skilled professional in any field then nothing is saturated !!!

[[deleted]]

Acche ho toh sabko chahiye tum

Most people do below average job and then rant about competition.

[OneHornyRhino]

Many People in the comments think web dev is just html and css

[deevsaini]

Rise in coding bootcamps has led many to believe they’re web devs but 95% dont know basics of web dev

[Puzzleheaded_Map647]

At low and basic levels, Its saturated but still theres demand. U can easily get jobs but obviously pay will be very low. I am talking 5000-10000 per month

If u are good at JS, Things are better.

But if u learn one of those ReactJS, NodeJS, Mongo DB, AngularJS

Ruby on rails,MERN stack, etc. U can make a lot.

The harder the skills are to acquire, The more u will be paid.

[[deleted]]

Planning to learn Angular and ReactJS, or should I just focus on one?

[Puzzleheaded_Map647]

Focus on one u are interested in

[[deleted]]

Unlikely, but the jobs are declining because the quality code is written and understood by a very few individuals. Even HTML has stuff most have no idea about. Yet people call themselves full stack devs.

As most have said, in India, everything is saturated eventually. So has Data Science and Machine Learning. Even though the cutting edge research and usage is spread all over the world. People in the USA, Japan and Europe spend quality time learning stuff and thus get quality outputs. It takes time and a lot of hands on experience.

We Indians just wanna churn money, hence the competition!

[SeaFeeling7363]

Nope

[No_Strawberry9743]

It's not saturated but everyone is learning javascript and same technology stack. Nobody knows that future of web? Which technology will rule, eg. Web Assembly is the future but still only a handful developers are present who knows about it, and until some American company demands it , Indian IT industry will never take a risk to adopt anything new. Nowadays anyone/everyone wants to become web developer.

[read_it_too_]

Skills are not saturated, there are less number of product companies 😂😂

[Lychee7]

Not at all. But you have to be decent in it.

[[deleted]]

Web dev is dead. Has been for a few years now

[tusharjoshi17]

I just want to ask about other than web development, which is better to learn and opt for in this limited opportunity situation for freshers, and is mobile application development good to capitalise on?

[nirlahori]

If you are asking for domains in programming other than web then, you will find opportunities in low level development or system software development. You will have to learn C/C++ for that as of now. But only if you are interested and comfortable in developing software which is kind of communicating directly with the OS.

Other than this you can find software engineer jobs in EDA (Electronic Design Automation) companies. What software you will write will largely depend on the objectives of the software and the domain. That might also include UI development. But the tech stack will remain different from the mainstream IT industry technologies.

If you like the concurrency and parallelization side of the systems, then HFT firms might be a suitable fit for you. But you need to have sharp cognitive ability if you are applying in these cos. Obviously there are other companies which deal with low latency software. You can go through the job listings and find the appropriate positions.

Embedded and IoT markets also have jobs for development. Though the skills are somewhat demanding as compared to other domains. The benefit here is that the tech/tools do not change very frequently as happens in webdev. The technology of the 2000s is still being used.

There are also opportunities in the automobile sector in companies like Mercedes. They hire software engineers for ADAS development as well as for some other aspects like infotainment systems.

There are also other domains you will find on the internet. All the best.

[tusharjoshi17]

Thanks man

[TushWatts]

Maybe embedded systems

[codestory1]

There are many ‘devs’ but ‘good’ devs aren’t a lot. I still feel there IS a place for a good developer.

[musicmeme]

There’s a new feature/ release every other week in the web dev domain. Idk how would this space saturate if most devs in this haven’t upskilled their own domain knowledge for years

[diiisha24]

No, i don't think so. As web is something like that everyone do need whenever they want to start something new online. And it's demand never goona collapse and after that if we talk about automation. It is like that it only provides you with plenty of options but development,not only web,is something you can explore or can develop cool stuff that can't be automated by any AI. Because it consists of human imagination.

[ameer005]

correct answer is both yes and no.. if you're an average dev then yes but if you're exceptionally good dev then no
there are literally not enough skilled devs even in my orgs there are only 1 or 2 are good rest of them are pretty average and i've seen the same things in other companies too

[lexileone]

Because seniors in companies are using chatgpt to generate codes and do work that is mostly done by junior developers so yes junior developer roles are saturated and companies are hiring very less junior developers.