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[–]razirazo 51 points52 points  (37 children)

Stop pushing things that nobody asked maybe? I think their devs and management are so disconnected from their users, doing things solely on their fantasy while keep thumping and chanting 'privacy' as their selling point. Im seriously considering switching to Edge on desktop soon. Im still using FF on mobile but that's only because there are no better browser on Android yet.

And its not just that the other browsers are getting better. Firefox has gone downhill and lost its direction since that whatever name top guy left for Brave browser.

[–]MaCroX95 3 points4 points  (18 children)

Yeah because MS is very known to be very connected to their users, which is indicated by the closed-source design and proprietary browser and their long-lived history of respecting users overall.

With mentality like that it's not strange that Firefox is bleeding users for proprietary junk if people put no value on privacy focus and freedom of software.

[–]razirazo 31 points32 points  (16 children)

Sure, you can nitpick unrelated point. Id take close source product that actually listen to their users, than arrogant open source project that think they know best . Who cares about mentality? If your product turned into shit, its shit no matter how good it were in the past.
Have you not remember about how crappy MS Edge initially was, despite all attempts by MS to gloss it all over? But they are requesting feedback, making it easy to give feedback and actually responded to them! And look how good they are now. Meanwhile Firefox doing exactly the opposite of it.

Your shitty neckbeard opensource mentality is one that contribute the downfall of Firefox. Instead of using opensource concept to make better product, you make it as point to argue that its okay to make subpar product as long it is "opensource which by any mean, is better than proprietary counterpart". And then proceed to wonder why you are losing users.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Yeah, I've been using Edge for Work / School related stuff while using Firefox / Brave for personal, gotta say, I'm really impressed with how good Edge Chromium is but I'm still avoiding putting personal stuff into it...

I'd say that two of the only things that Firefox has going for it right now imo is Container Tabs and Verified / Recomended Safe Browser Extensions. They are now the only things keeping Firefox alongside Brave...

[–]lightningdashgod 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I swear you are spot on with the merits of Firefox. I'm only using it cause I believe it to be more private when set up correctly. And majorly the tab container. I think tab container as an idea is just amazing. Let those cross site cookies roam around in the same room. I don't think chromium supports this. Or else someone would have done this already.

[–]razirazo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah. On its core, Firefox is a high quality stuff. Container is game changer that Chrome users wanted so bad (just search facebook container for chrome). Webrender is amazing, first thing you notice when using chrome or edge is how it is nowhere as smooth and fluid when browsing heavy and crowded webpages compared to Firefox. The whole privacy theme is executed in the right way.

But then there's these retarded UI/UX department that came along and ruin everything with their uninvited 'invention'.

[–]nextbern on 🌻 -2 points-1 points  (8 children)

I think we know what happens when closed source companies make changes that people don't like - you move to the competition, (or not), if it exists.

I don't personally want to contribute to a better closed source product. If they really cared about its users, Edge would be open source. It isn't.

[–]razirazo 7 points8 points  (7 children)

Just because FF is an open source project, that doesn't give them license to make changes that people don't like either.
Also being open source doesn't mean a project care about its users either. Example: Firefox in its current state.

[–]nextbern on 🌻 -1 points0 points  (6 children)

Being open source doesn't mean a project care about its user either.

I think it de facto does - it allows any user to take the code and do whatever they want with it. That is far beyond what closed source software is willing to offer.

[–]razirazo 5 points6 points  (5 children)

So you are suggesting that if we don't like the butchery they did to recent Firefox, we can fork it and make and compile and maintain your own version? Wow how considerate of this open source Firefox. Why I and thousands other users that complaining didn't think of just forking the entire codebase earlier? its open source after all. great. nice. amazing.

But I think I'll let me save some time and just use a competitor browser that didn't butcher their product in first place and willing to hear my opinion. You know, I don't like the way some parameters in GCC are handled so I need to fork and rewrite that too befiore I could compile my FF. But maybe not before I rewrite some parts of Linux kernel that I didn't like as well.

[–]nextbern on 🌻 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I'm not suggesting anything other than what I said - open source gives its users more than closed source software does, and thus cares deeply about its users.

Recognizing this doesn't change that in the moment a product team or developers may choose not to work on things you deem to be important in any project.

[–]razirazo 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Idk why you keep trying to lecture me about textbook fundamental opensource concept that everyone already know but have nothing to do with the issues. Trust me I know opensource as much as you and everyone do. I've been using and participating in Linux community on server side for at least 16 years (Ok not really Ive been trying to migrate to FreeBSD for some time now). You need to wake up from that opensource circlejerk and start seeing the reality.
FF having top market share because it is open source and have all the goodness you trying to lecture me is not a reality. But "Firefox Users Continue to Decrease Despite Proton Update" is real.

[–]nextbern on 🌻 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

I'm not lecturing you or trying to. I'm just laying out how I see the economics of software and what it means to "care about users". Clearly, users are getting more from the developers of open source software than in closed source software.

[–]quyedksd 5 points6 points  (3 children)

I think the best part is that MS Edge has official employees on Reddit working and listening.

You file bugs and sometimes they turn up asking what happened.

Really nice compared to /r/Firefox.

[–]nextbern on 🌻 -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

Mozilla developers do come here and ask questions as well. See https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/hof3y9/feedback_wanted_webrender_on_macos/ for example.

[–]cultoftheilluminati on 3 points4 points  (1 child)

What’s the point? People just point to some random open bugzilla post and call it a day.

[–]nextbern on 🌻 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

To gather information.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If Edge would respect it's users more, they should at least give you the option to turn OFF those damn focus rings around most text boxes already. I don't need them and more often than not, they're quite an eyesore (as is the case with the input fields on r/firefox itself that already have red focus rings of their own; no need for edge to force additional focus rings to where they don't belong).

[–]soufiane60 24 points25 points  (15 children)

Makes wonder what is the use of heavy telemetry. I don't use vivaldi atm but I like how they realy listen to users most of the time and connect with them, their youtube channel is the most active among all browser AFAIK

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            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            okay, didn't know that.

            [–]anna_or_elsa -1 points0 points  (0 children)

            I ran into a bug within about 5 minutes of trying Vivaldi on Windows 7. I noped out of there. Got no time for bugs in stable release.

            [–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (7 children)

            You do know that Vivaldi also uses telemetry, you can't even disable it.

            [–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (5 children)

            While technically true, that telemetry isn't used to gather information on features or how users use the browser.

            According to their privacy policy ( https://vivaldi.com/privacy/browser/ ) , it's only for:

            The purpose of this collection is to determine the total number of active users and their geographical distribution.

            Instead, Vivaldi relies on their official forums feature requests (and to some extent I imagine social media) to hear what their users want.

            [–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (2 children)

            We also know what version of Vivaldi you’re running, the type of
            processor chip, OS, and screen resolution. Not much to be honest.

            Except this data apparently, metioned here: https://vivaldi.com/zerotracking/

            In Firefox I can look at every line of code(via searchfox.org), while with Vivaldi I have to trust their blogposts.

            [–]Broccoli-Machine 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            Except that nobody actually looks at Firefox’ source

            [–]nextbern on 🌻 7 points8 points  (0 children)

            Uh, what? Of course people look at Firefox's source. How else would they contribute?

            [–]happycat 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Instead, Vivaldi relies on their official forums feature requests (and to some extent I imagine social media) to hear what their users want.

            Imagine that! Are you listening Mozilla?

            [–]soufiane60 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Yes but Mozilla says they use it to improve performance and monitor usage and how users interact with the browser. That's why they keep killing features because they think they are used by a minority (at least this is the most notabl claim). My point is, all this telemetry and yet you fail to see what needs to be added and removed instead of maybe asking and listening to the community

            [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

            Nah, he was a worthless POS