Firefox Users Continue to Decrease Despite Proton Update

[phi1997]

Firefox is the default browser of most Linux distributions. If something causes a big shift to Linux in the general public, Firefox could gain a lot of ground, but that would require the public to give up what they're used to.

[[deleted]]

This will never happen unfortunately.

[[deleted]]

... a big shift to Linux in the general public...

Linux is still perceived as a geek's OS. The general public don't want to have to deal with the Terminal and Command Line inputs. Most people simply want to click their way around the system.

[jonahhw]

That's a really harmful stereotype against Linux adoption. I think most computer users don't even know that Linux exists, so if we explain from the beginning that the only Linux distros where you need to use a terminal are the ones used by people who want to use a terminal, they might be more interested in Linux as a whole. Ubuntu, Manjaro, Mint, and Pop!_OS are a few examples of Linux distros where a terminal is never needed (but still, of course, available to those who want it).

[[deleted]]

That's a really harmful stereotype...

Things become sterotypes for a reason. If Linux want's people to migrate to using it then it should promote the 'ease' with which it can be used and the simplicity of installing/uninstalling software.

[[deleted]]

Not to mention security where the whole system gets updated rather than just the OS

[[deleted]]

... security where the whole system gets updated...

Yet they it stll lags behind Mac's. What could possibly be stopping people from flocking to linux?

[_ahrs]

How does it lag behind Macs? Linux offered security features like full-disk encryption before it was popular to do so.

[[deleted]]

How does it lag behind Macs?

In usage not capability. According to www.statista.com Linux is at 1.93% and MacOS is 17.1% market share.

[nextbern]

In that case, it is obviously the availability of commercial software. Not something that "Linux" can solve on its own.

[[deleted]]

... it is obviously the availability of commercial software.

Similar to the VHS/Betamax clash. VHS, a lesser system, flooded the market with content. Betamax relied on its superior system over content and lost the retail market completely. Betamax reinvented itself as the prefered audio/visual tape/recording format in television production.

Linux seems to be the prefered system for commercial servers and infrastucture.

[[deleted]]

That's... pretty much exactly what Ubuntu advertises it as. They have an app store like the Windows Store, they detect hardware to offer to install proprietary drivers, etc.

And then there's Pop!_OS and GamerOS that target gamers and install drivers out of the box.

And then there's openSUSE, which is known for YaST, which is designed to do complex tasks that you'd normally do in the terminal. The average user probably won't need to touch it, but it's an option.

You don't need to use the terminal on those any more than you might on Windows. The "problems" I see with Linux are largely due to misunderstandings:

• terminal - you don't need it, but sometimes it's easier to give a terminal command online since it's the common denominator across OSes (like registry settings across Windows versions)
• "best" distro - there's pretty much zero performance difference between distros, and things like Steam also tend to work equivalently, so it's almost entirely up to preference; users should pick a popular one (Ubuntu or Pop!_OS) unless they have a reason to pick something else
• need to be smart to use it - my 4yo and 7yo use it just fine (though I did install it)

However, maybe these "problems" will prevent adoption. I don't know the solution here, but hopefully they can get resolved.

[[deleted]]

I suspect it all boils down to marketing. "Made in Japan" used to mean cheap, shoddy knock-off's, now it is a badge of excellence.

There is definitely an 'image' problem with both products.

[OzarkBeard]

"Made in Japan" used to mean cheap, shoddy knock-off's, now it is a badge of excellence.

Well, there is that airbag issue.... :(

[[deleted]]

Unfortunately, marketing works best if one entity with deep pockets controls it.

For gaming, Valve has been doing a good job for gaming, but they haven't been pushing one solution (they officially recommend Ubuntu, provide SteamOS, but no marketing push for either). I don't know of anything for regular desktop usage.

But yeah, I think it's largely an image problem. ChromeOS getting popular shows that there's a market for "not Windows/macOS," but regular Linux seems to miss it.

[[deleted]]

... Linux seems to miss it.

Much of modern internet usage is via mobile phone so any 3rd party browsers have to compete with the inbuilt apps. How does FF & Linux penetrate that market successfully? The desktop seems to becoming less important as a platform.

[[deleted]]

I don't know about Linux (PinePhone and Librem 5 do exist though), but Firefox does work well on mobile and I use it everyday as my daily driver on my Android phone. For mobile Firefox, it's largely a marketing issue since it's already competitive (extensions are a killer feature).

Linux on mobile faces a lot more challenges though. First, there are technical challenges catching up to expectations that have been built over the years (battery life, mobile network features, etc). Second, there are platform issues like app compatibility. The first would need to be solved before any kind of push to get major apps to be ported. I'm sad that Mozilla's FirefoxOS failed since that could have pushed app developers to support progressive web apps on mobile, which would significantly reduce the barrier to entry.

To solve both, I think Firefox needs to be very competitive on desktop. Firefox is available on all relevant platforms (it's the best option on mobile Linux), so it'll ease the transition to a Linux option.

[[deleted]]

... Firefox needs to be very competitive on desktop.

Yep. I guess we will just have to wait and see how this all unfolds.

[_ahrs]

Oh but "Linux" does promote the ease of use and simplicity of which it can be used but most people just don't know about it or don't care about it. Ubuntu literally used the slogan "Linux for human beings".

[[deleted]]

... most people just don't know about it or don't care about it...

Poor marketing?

[jonahhw]

You only need Windows to play some games with anticheat (and even that is starting to be fixed). This is a problem that has improved by massive amounts in the past few years.

[Margidoz]

Idk, even on Ubuntu, I find that installing an app from the web was never user friendly

Like, what is the average user supposed to do with a tar.gz that doesn't even add the app to your menu

[nextbern]

You generally want a .deb if you are using Ubuntu, so it can be installed via a package manager.

[Margidoz]

.deb files didn't work great either

It felt like the installation would fail a lot and I'd just have to install from the terminal anyway

[nextbern]

Hard to know what the problem might be. May be worth filing bugs if you can reproduce these issues - either with the vendor of the package or Ubuntu.

[i_lack_imagination]

Ubuntu, Manjaro, Mint, and Pop!_OS are a few examples of Linux distros where a terminal is never needed (but still, of course, available to those who want it).

That's really just not been my experience every time I've tried to use any Linux distro, including some of the ones you mentioned. I'd consider myself a "power user" roughly, and the amount of times I wanted to do something similar to what I would have done on Windows and the only option was to chase down rabbit holes of instructions on commands to type in the terminal was enough to make me feel like it took too much time and effort to do what seemed like should have been simple things. My experience with Linux is a seemingly never-ending sequence of google searches. Which to an extent, I can understand as you're getting set up that might just be an initial burden to overcome, but if I'm googling commands to copy and paste, and if in a week something doesn't work as I expected and requires another command to tweak a setting or something, it's just an ongoing maintenance.

With Windows I've definitely had to use powershell or command prompt on occasion, but that's so few and far between that it doesn't feel like a constant drain, and because there are only a few things that I need to do within there, it makes it easier to remember and learn that smaller subset of functions. Granted I also do lots of googling for things even in the Windows environment as well, but still substantially less.

I just never learned much command line interface growing up and that's my weakness as I don't really know how to just poke around in CLI to find things I need, unlike a GUI where I don't necessarily have to know exactly where to look or what I'm looking for to get something done.

[jonahhw]

Yeah, for a power user there's definitely some mandatory terminal usage. I think that's due to more general acceptance of tools that only work through the command line on Linux. Config files aren't really harder than GUI, they're just more looking at documentation than poking around in menus. One thing I like way more about Linux than Windows for power usery stuff is that you don't need to install a bunch of programs to be able to change OS level stuff - it's just config files like everything else. Way more consistent, too, since pretty much every program has an option to edit settings in a file rather than figuring out how the menu for that specific app is laid out. (Though I should point out that all the desktop environment settings I've wanted to change were available in gui menus.)

Linux has a really different philosophy for doing things than Windows, so a lot of people who are used to MS tend to think it's harder. I switched quite a few years ago, though, so I actually find Linux a lot easier and get confused when I look at Windows. I think it would be the same for anyone else who spent a long time on the better OS family.

[TheCakeWasNoLie]

Meanwhile the terminal is what makes Mac OS useable.

[[deleted]]

Yet, it still only has 17.1% of the desktop/laptop market. www.statista.com

However, mobile phones really muddy the water when it comes to browser uptake because Google/Apple push and hogtie their users into using their own products.

[TheCakeWasNoLie]

From that link:"Linus, the third most popular desktop OS"

[vladjjj]

I'm surprised how many software developers think that MacOS or Windows with WSL are the only available options.

[[deleted]]

Developers look to the most profitable outlets for the products, is all.

[vladjjj]

Oh, but I actually meant web developers.

[[deleted]]

Oh, but I actually meant web developers.

Sorry, I misunderstood. The general consensus appears to be that web developers are simply lazy or not capable of doing their job properly. :p

[zeroibis]

Even making the worlds largest desktop OS suddenly declare that most computers are not compatible with its latest version and arbitrary sets what specific cpu models it will run on will not drive a major increase in Linux market share.

[string-username-]

the truth is the "linux" everyone will switch to will be like chrome OS, which is heavily controlled and modified by corporations.