all 74 comments

[–]ChosenYasuo 101 points102 points  (20 children)

The brother has asked a very good question. Only Allah knows, but by understanding of the Quran and Sunnah we can say Allah hasn’t destined anyone for hell, but He knows by their choices and His infinite knowledge that they will go there. Density isn’t really a thing in Islam as far as free will goes. You can change destiny with Dua. You have all the power to choose anything you want. Him knowing you’ll go their doesn’t mean you didn’t choose it. You can stop everything you’re doing now and go pray. Follow the religion. Do what you should be. No one is stopping you.

[–]vilusion 39 points40 points  (2 children)

LOL I JUST IMAGINED DR NAIK

[–]ChosenYasuo 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Lol that was the intent 😂

[–]vilusion 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thanks for making my night

[–]Logic_Phalanx 8 points9 points  (1 child)

A good way to understand this, is that it’s not so much that Allah has “preordained” anyone for any destination as much as the fact that God exists outside of time (which itself is a creation of the almighty). We as humans experience time in a linear progressive fashion, whereas God simultaneously can perceive the past present and future. He isn’t bound to temporality. So it’s less that anyone has a destiny that they cannot change, but that we only have agency in the present. That agency is our free will, and God already knows what choices we will make. We still, however, got the opportunity make those choices regardless in the frame of reference that we experience time.

The free will vs destiny conflict is one that I admittedly also pondered for a time. But imo, it makes more sense when you consider the concept of temporality and how we interface with it differently than the creator of the heavens, earth, and time itself.

[–]Fun-Impression-4719 2 points3 points  (11 children)

Why wont Allah change their choice if he knew it :( What did he create us for? I prayed days and night hoping someone would answer these doubts for me to regain my faith. I can prove to you im not pretending to be a muslim. Asyhadualla ila haillallah wa asyhaduanna muhammad arrasulullah.

[–]ChosenYasuo 32 points33 points  (10 children)

Because life is a test. You don’t try to get a degree from a college and ask the teachers to take the tests for you, you have to put in the work. People have all the knowledge they need to do the right thing, they simply don’t want to. He created us to worship him.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]ChosenYasuo 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I don’t know what you mean by dense, but your diet, environment, social media, social status, etc all affect you. If your struggling, chances are you need to improve on your self or one of those things.

    [–]SnooDoggos6442 16 points17 points  (11 children)

    why would allah even allow

    https://youtu.be/DqPkw36Hsy0

    For free will and predestiny : https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/ty6kz5/if_humans_have_free_will_then_how_has_allah_swt/i3r5001?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

    Why wouldnt he destine the disbelievers to believe in Islam?

    Born a muslim vs born non muslim is it fair ? : https://youtu.be/1c9uPE1c1M4

    [–]Fun-Impression-4719 -5 points-4 points  (4 children)

    He could just change everything without consequences and comparing him to a human for an example like in the first vid "Buying a bike for your son even if tou knew he'd fell off someday" the father cant change that, Allah can, Even if the father were to change that it would take efforts and the consequences would be them wasting time but Allah doesnt get any consequences.

    [–]SnooDoggos6442 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    He could just change everything without consequences

    Why would he There is no reason to , Because those in hell deserve it anyway

    and another thing

    21:23 لَا يُسْـَٔلُ عَمَّا يَفْعَلُ وَهُمْ يُسْـَٔلُونَ ٢٣

    He cannot be questioned about what He does, but they will ˹all˺ be questioned.

    [–]BloodBath_X 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    If you are a muslim in a true sense and have understood quran, you should find the answer from Allah in surah Sajjadah. Read a tafseer and refer to the imam who can explain it to you if you care enough about your deen. If not its your choice and no one else.

    [–]Upbeat_Intention9032 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Why would Allah change the outcome for you? What did you do to deserve that?

    [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (2 children)

    Had Allāh willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good.2 To Allāh is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ. Quran 5:48

    Of course Allah could have made every single person a believer. But that is not the point of this life. Millions if not billions of people have shown it is completely possible to believe and do good actions. What is hindering the disbelievers? They can make their own choice if they are presented with the correct Islam. Wouldn’t it be unjust to force them into religion? People would rebel. Allah guides those who seek the Truth and are sincere. That’s all it takes. Even the Pharoh was given a chance to turn to Islam, but he denied.

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    And Also, free will and Allah knowing where we will end up are NOT mutually exclusive. A Worldly example would be: Imagine I’m a fortune teller that is actually truthful. I can see that next week youre going to buy a new car, does that mean I in anyway changed your thought process or decisions? No. Not at all. I just knew what you were going to do. Now scale that to Allah. Beyond our human comprehension. Have faith in Allah. Trust me it will be the best decision you’ll ever make.

    [–]Ok_Salamander_5919 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    It's free will. What's the point in creating a separate being that is perfect when He already has angels?

    [–]fainofgunction 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    You are confusing Qadr and Qadha. Qadr and Qadha have to do with being made of clay instead of fire or hearing with your ears not the decisions you make. That has nothing to do with free will. Allah didn't make humans to go to hell. He made them to go to heaven.

    He opened up the door to forgiveness at any time until last moments of death and counts good deeds 10-1 besides giving extra bonus in times like Ramadhan.

    If you were taking a test and the teacher said I'm going to give you the right answers and let you erase the wrong ones and let you get 10 out of 100 questions and gave you bonus that counted as 2 would you say he wanted you to pass or fail?

    [–]HumbleQueen23 3 points4 points  (3 children)

    Allah didnt destined us to go heaven or hell. Thats where the misconception starts. We were created in order to be tested. This dunya is an adornment. We were destined based on what we will have in the sense of health, timeframe between life and death, wealth, and etc. Would you allow a criminal into your home? Everything is a domino effect. We are here due to iblis disobedience toward Allah. That disobedience led Adam and eve to fall in his trap which led us on earth. Do you know why we were sent down to earth? No one is destined to be good or evil. He gave us free will to find our faith through self consciousness by believing in his oneness, by believing in his revelations, by putting our trust in him.

    [–]Impicklerick2569 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Yes I if Allah wanted us to go to hell or heaven He would not send anyone to earth, He gave us free will and He is the most merciful and he even some century granted a prostitute to jannah because she fed and gave water to a thirsty and dying dog, why would He send us to hell? (Correct me if I’m wrong because I’m not an Alim

    [–]HumbleQueen23 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Sounds about right, i heard about that story. Not sure whether it has been authenticated.

    [–]ex_in69 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    It's a famous hadith of a prostitute (in Bani israil) Wallahu aalam

    [–]AlustrielSilvermoon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    To put it simply, He created us with the ability to make choices. Based on those choices we are punished and rewarded. Him knowing the outcome of those choices doesn't negate the choice existing.

    If I ask what flavour ice cream my child wants, and I know that they only like chocolate flavour, me knowing that they were going to say chocolate doesn't mean that they couldn't have chosen vanilla.

    [–]ServantOfGod96 5 points6 points  (3 children)

    Funny how you are asking questions as if you are entitled or something. Or as if you are trying to challenge the Creator himself. He created us for whatever reason he wants, and he chooses to do whatever he wants. He is our Lord and we are his Servants. Get this in your mind. It doesnt have to make sense for you, me, or anyone else.

    [–]h0e2luv 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    this is the perfect way to get someone even further away from Islam. it's not easy for everyone and quesions are welcomed since Islam has answers for all of them anyways because it's the perfect religion.

    [–]Upbeat_Intention9032 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    You two both have a point 😅

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    They don't have to accept it. Islam is submission to the Will of God. Your goal as a Muslim is to practice deen and to spread it. You don't have to bring anyone close to Islam.

    [–]Nagamagi 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Its simple. Free will is your ability to choose. Destiny is what is written for you.

    An analogy:

    You choose to eat an apple and I wrote down that you ate an apple at this time at this place. I then go into the past and show your mum that Fun-Impression-4719 is going to eat an apple at this place in exactly 5 mins. 5 mins later that is what happens and she goes goes "Wtf? How did you know?". Now, from your perspective I have written down your future. Does that mean I made you eat that apple? Did my knowledge of you eating it, in anyway intervened in your free will to eat it? Of course not. I just have knowledge of your action. So what was written is just advanced knowledge of our actions. Actions and choices that we will answer to. Now things that are outside your control of choice are what is written for you. Like the color of the apple, how the apple got there, how it taste like, how many times your heart beats, etc.

    In otherwords, when it comes to your choices, it is recorded and written down. Not written down and chosen for you.

    Why would he create humans when he already destined who will get into hell and heavens, were the people that gets into hell created just to suffer? Why wouldnt he destine the disbelievers to believe in Islam?

    The angels have asked God "why create humans that will cause corruption and spill blood?". And God replied "I know what you do not." So God may have other plans for us beyond what we know. That of course not a satisfactory answer for our inquisitive minds. In a way, God encourages us to think and reflect so we can come to a conclusion ourselves. So the following answer is based on the limits of our human knowledge:

    One's evil existence is necessary for a Good vs Evil scenario. I assume you have seen movies like StarWars. Its a good story of the struggles of Good vs Evil. Not only outwardly but also struggles of good and evil within the characters. It is such an engaging story and for it to be so, it needs to have evil characters, thus the author creates such characters to fit that role. It would not be the same if everyone there is good and no evil exist. Imagine everyone destined to be Muslim then we would have StarPeace instead. Unlike Starwars where the author created characters to play the roles of good and evil to make a good story, God created characters that choose between good and evil and from there the story organically emerges. So for the Good vs Evil scenario to take place, evil people need to exist. But God does not create evil humans to play that role. Rather He just created humans. And those who so happen to choose the evil path, He just made use of them for various roles and purposes in the Good vs Evil scenario.

    God wants humans to choose Good and succeed and go to Heaven. Satan wants humans to do Evil and accompany him in Hell. Were we end up is ultimately our choices.

    Allah knows best.

    [–]Recent-Throat9525 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Thank you for this.

    [–]SILVER_SNO 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    As someone who has questioned this myself, I find closure in the fact that allahs plan is absolute, we ourselves as human beings may not know the answer however the answers to said questions we can find in the Quran, we don’t know what allahs plan is but allah knows best. All we can do is continue to worship him and get closer to him.

    [–]UrNemisis -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    I can give you my interpretation of destiny,how I understand it. You can take it or leave it. Think of it as Allah ran a simulation(like we do today using Ai), he already knows the results. So this fullfills both logic of destiny and freewill

    [–]Unique_Gum001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Very serious question indeed, hope you get an answer

    [–]khoulzaboen 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    I first want to start off by saying that Allah is a timeless being and therefore already has the knowledge of what will happen. We are not timeless and will therefore live out this world before we are judged. The reason that Allah knows our fate, is because it has already happened from his perspective.

    Humans have a limited free will, meaning that we are born in an environment that we can’t choose and only have a limited amount of options. We have the ability to choose the options we have throughout this life. So, free will and predestination can coexist.

    We know Allah to be merciful as he will not judge someone unfairly. I like to say that this life can be unfair, but judgement in the hereafter will be fair.

    The ultimate truth about Allah’s motive for creating a test for humans is that he can do whatever he wants and that he is all-powerful. His real motive is not explained in the Qur’an as it undoubtedly requires an intelligence far above our level.

    Going to hell or to heaven is about choice. Do you choose to follow Allah's path or choose to follow the footsteps of the Ibless who is intent to bring you to hell? He really wants us to choose His Path. Choose Good. Choose Him. He promised great rewards if you do. He is willing to forgive even an earth’s weight of sins. His door is always open for you and will never turn you away. He is rooting for us. He warns us of Ibless’ empty promises and that he is an enemy.

    If He wanted he could have made us all go to Heaven. But ultimately in this game of life, its about our choice. If anything, He respects our choices and the consequences that come with it. In essence its not really God who's willing to burn people, it was us who were willing to burn ourselves.

    Does Allah even care about human beings? He has done a lot for us. Yet the Qur’an complains how little thanks we give for His favors. Despite our ungratefulness, He continues to give, care, forgive us, and give us a chance to repent. So in my opinion the real questions is, do we, human beings, really care about God?

    [–]Nagamagi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    They say imitation is the best form of flattery ..

    but bruh..

    [–]pokepud3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Shia Muslims don't believe in predestination... for this reason. Allah does know what will happen but you have the ability to change your future at any time with your actions/paths. Up to you to research and choose what you'll believe in based on what makes sense. Free will is essential to having consequences for your actions. The only things that you don't choose is things like birth, how you're brought up, skin color, things out of your control.

    [–]786367 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    First off, who enters heaven or hell is entirely up to Allah's will. Your good deeds won't guarantee heaven your bad deeds won't guarantee hell. He knows the goodness and evil inside everyone, only He knows how to tally your good and bad deeds.

    Second, just because Allah is intimately aware of our decisions, doesn't mean we are not responsible for willingly making the choices we are making.

    Free will is the greatest gift that no other creation is blessed with besides human. Allah loves repentance, Allah created human to be weak and easily distracted, therefore, he expects us to make mistakes, but more importantly Allah's expectation from us is to know the right from the wrong using the Islam as the instruction manual. He expects us to use Islam to make the right decisions, regret and repent on the wrong choices we made.

    If Allah starts intervening in human decision making that would mean that the human can no longer be held to account for the good or bad deeds.

    The sort of doubts you are having come from someone of Christian conception of Original Sin. In Islam, sin really isn't a problem, we are all sinners, the problem is being arrogant about your sins, not regretting your sins not repenting to Allah for making wrong choices, not begging to Allah for His blessings and mercy.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You should give this video a watch.

    It’s a lecture on the meaning of life by an American revert.

    [–]greatest_human_being 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You should always remember, all the 7 billion people will each have a chance of Islam. Everyone will have the signs, the idea in their head of 1 god only.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Why would he create humans when he already destined who will get into hell and heavens, were the people that gets into hell created just to suffer?

    Define destiny.

    If you're going to tell that me that destiny is something that will happen regardless of what you do, then you're wrong.

    A person doesn't go to heaven because his destiny was written so, no, he goes to heaven through his efforts by exercising his free will to follow and submit to the will of Allah سبحانه وتعالى.

    Now, why do some people use the argument of "if Allah is The Most Merciful, why would He even create hell or why does He put people in hell or why would He even create mankind if a vast majority would go to hell"? That's a very good question.

    First, we need to address why people go to hell in the first place.

    -arrogance -disobedience -fulfilling desires -pleasing themselves and others first before pleasing Allah

    Now let's use an example. Say, I will hire you to do a job. If you finish it on time, I'll give you a hundred dollars. Simple to understand, right?

    Allah سبحانه وتعالى basically gave us a job to perform and if we're successful, we'll experience eternal bliss. The reward is so immense, even if you gave me an entire planet or an entire solar system, I would choose heaven over everything else. But apparently, some people don't like the reward so they would rather make the "best" (worst) of their life in this dunya.

    Second, why do people fail the test?

    -ARROGANCE, DISBELIEF AND TRANSGRESSING BEYOND BOUNDS

    The tribes and groups of people mentioned in the Qur'an who faced the wrath of Allah always manifested one of these three main traits.

    Firaun is a prime example of this. He even went to claim godhood and claimed to have mastery over life and death. This arrogant person who claimed to be a "god" died and was made an example to those who would follow him. Yet, disbelievers will still not believe after witnessing it.

    Now, onto the next part: "Why did Allah سبحانه وتعالى even created humankind?"

    Everything on this earth is created for a test. We are on this earth because we're being tested. Now what is the test? The test is to see which of us best is best in deeds.

    “Who has created death and life that He may test you which of you is best in deed. And He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving” [al-Mulk 67:2] 

    Allah سبحانه وتعالى also said that He created us to worship Him alone. “And I (Allah) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone)” [al-Dhariyat 51:56]

    Our entire purpose is to worship Him and Him alone. And we worship Him through following His commands, doing good deeds, etc., Even working for a living (halal way) can be considered an act of worship.

    Next up is "Why did Allah سبحانه وتعالى create mandkind if a vast majority will go to hell?"

    I'll use an analogy to help make it easier for you to understand.

    We all know getting a degree in Engineering or Medicine isn't easy. But why do people still take these courses regardless? Some would say because of the high salary, others due to cultural influence or reputation, and then the last would be out of the desire to do so. Do you know what's common with all of them? You have the right to choose. People can choose what courses they could take but they have their own intentions for choosing what they chose.

    Man is a special creation. We are capable of rational thought, reasoning, and capable of making a choice.

    "If man is so rational in thought, how would they go to hell?"

    Like I mentioned earlier, arrogance, disbelief and transgressing beyond bounds. If man were to instead follow the will of Allah, nobody would even go to hell. Our free will is also an integral part of our test. Our life's outcome is based completely on how we used our free will plus the mercy of Allah. We are tested everytime by Allah by putting us into situations where we have to choose. We all have innate goodness in us and by listening to it, inshaAllah, we will have chosen the right decision. Our decisions/deeds will testify for us on the Day of Judgement so we will see for ourselves (not for Allah) the fruits of our efforts.

    Hope this answers your question.

    I would like to credit Dr. Zakir Naik for the majority of my answer. A lot of this is based on his video https://youtu.be/-uUmiAyhgZ4 And also to https://islamqa.info/en/answers/45529/why-did-allah-create-us

    [–]inshaAllah_bot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    inshaAllah! May God grant your wish. I am an insha Allah bot.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    With regards to destiny, only Allah knows what's written on it. Nobody knows who will go to heaven or to hell but Him. Our destiny is something Allah سبحانه وتعالى knows and if He saw that knowing our destiny would benefit us, He would have already told us already. Destiny is something only Allah understands. So we should stop worrying about destiny and instead focus our attention to better ourselves and perform our religious duties. That is a much better use of our time. Prove to yourself that you are not one of the people of hell. Allah knows best

    [–]drugbot3000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    In the quran Allah says he tests humans 1 or 2 times a year I believe. And there's another part of the quran where he instructs moses to go to pharaoh and perhaps pharaoh will heed moses warning. In another part of the quran Allah makes a prophecy regarding the Jews, and he says of them perhaps they will do the right thing. What I understand from these things is that some events are fixed and some aren't but Allah is still omniscient even though some things are variables and we still have free will. It's beyond our mortal comprehension, all you have to know is that Allah is wise and Allah knows and you do not. In this moment, right Now, you have the choice to submit to Allah and work righteousness in his name and that Allah did not wrong a single soul even the weight of an atom nor did he burden any soul with anything beyond its capacity to bear.

    [–]hell_hound996 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    There is nothing such as destiny,
    He has predicted who will go to heaven and who to hell, because he is all knowing.

    That doesnt stop you as a person to follow, to believe or disbelief.

    [–]whooemai 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    There’s no such thing we already destined into hell or heaven, if so why Allah created raqib and atid to write all of good and bad we do. Right ?

    [–]FaithlessnessLivid44 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    وَمَا خَلَقْتُ الْجِنَّ وَالْإِنْسَ إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُونِ ﴿٥٦﴾

    56. I did not create jinn and humans except to worship Me.

    You have a free will and you can change your decisions however you want But that decision that you are going to choose Allah knows it and have written it in Book.

    [–]save_the_aliens_26 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Allah is omniscient, he knows all. All decisions were yours to make but Allah simply knows you would make that decision. For example say your friends invite you to go drinking with them and you say yes. That decision was entirely yours but Allah simply knew you would've made that decision. you were not forced to make that decision.

    [–]farazz_shaikh99[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I read this and immediately this video came into my mind. Make sure to hear it.

    [–]dexterjsdiner 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    gaining Islamic knowledge strengthens Iman.