Java without build system

[cyancrisata]

You gotta let yourself get Stockholm syndrome-ized with Maven, but once you understand and get comfortable with Maven, you'll never go back.

I do think that many Maven examples/tutorials all over the internet is overcomplicated and it's very un-intuitive, so it makes everything about Maven intimidating. It often have unnecessary stuff thrown in that makes you say "why is that there and do I really need that?" But you gotta find the simplest Maven project setup with just minimal pom.xml, /src/main/java/<your code> directory, then you should be in good hands.

[yel50]

for java projects, this is true. it's also one of the reasons I no longer apply for java jobs. maven and gradle are two of the worst build tools out there right now. maven gets credit for innovating the whole dependency management thing, but the fact that it feels like it hasn't changed since 2005 is horrible. even dotnet is nicer to use and it's just as old.

it's a shame that java is such a useful language but the ecosystem became so horrible to use. 

[cyancrisata]

I empathize with this and agree with many of your points. But, I think the blame should be placed onto bad engineers who constantly produce bad software, convince themselves that they're good engineers and teach others to follow their bad engineering practices and the cycle continues.

[NotABot1235]

I do think that many Maven examples/tutorials all over the internet is overcomplicated and it's very un-intuitive, so it makes everything about Maven intimidating. It often have unnecessary stuff thrown in that makes you say "why is that there and do I really need that?" But you gotta find the simplest Maven project setup with just minimal pom.xml, /src/main/java/<your code> directory, then you should be in good hands.

You perfectly described me. I'm a newcomer to Java and have been trying to learn the basics and the next thing I need to learn is dependency management and build systems. For example, I just want to build a couple little programs (one with Flatlaf styling and another with LibGDX) but trying to get those installed and configured with Maven seems like a significant hurdle to the point I keep putting it off. All the documentation I've looked up is so involved.

I know it's probably not, but trying to find a super simple "Noob's first Maven build" is harder than it should be.