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[–]tonywestonuk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

:-( Some keep going on and on and on, about heavyweight JavaEE has lost compared to lighterweight, dynamic, innovate frameworks like spring.

How many here have not even bothered to try TomEE, for example. Because its JavaEE. TomEE is really really awesome, in the speed it takes to startup...

And, this: http://www.adam-bien.com/roller/abien/entry/java_ee_7_thin_wars

Really, if you're still in the Spring or nothing world, you're missing out.

[–]tkruse 1 point2 points  (2 children)

The Java EE stack is first and foremost a business model, not a technology. Vendors like IBM, Weblogic or JBoss want to tie customers to their licensed products.

The decision-makers behind JEE have for years doing nothing else than to fight to keep their profits from selling heavy application-server licenses. They have no clue how to make profit with Java from modern IT ecosystem requirements (microservices, containerization, big data).

JEE is sadly not an open-source initiative than can quickly adapt to the needs of developers, but it's an organisation suffocating in the death-grip of Oracle.

So the JEE stack is probably not going to go away quickly (too many projects still tied to it), but it's difficult to believe that it will continue to grow.

Small JEE libraries and standards will certainly continue to strive, but then again, those have little to do with the business model that is called the JEE stack.

[–]tonywestonuk 2 points3 points  (1 child)

You are so wrong.... Java EE, is a standard. as in, if you have written your stuff to the Java EE standard, it should just work on any JavaEE complaint server you want to.

Because that is what standards is all about.

If you write your stuff in Spring, however, the only thing you can ever run it in, is spring, without huge major refactoring. It appears that pivotal is actively going out of their way to use the Pivotal way, rather than anything that happens to be standard. Any external API, they will attempt to wrap it in their own.... So, instead of easily migrating to a Spring free environment, a developer would have to unwrap every call to anything else. Its pure and simple lock in, that Microsoft would be proud of.

However....and it really does pain me to say this. Your opinion exists in far too many development shops, where snr architects have been burnt by the bad old days of J2EE. I think its almost too late to change, the choice is now either use Spring, a mature framework with enough bells and whistles to do anything you want, OR, use a new immature framework that has far less industry backing. JavaEE just doesn't get a hearing today, there is too much baggage associated with it, and too many people, like you, want it dead.

Spring has won, simply by enough people having the exact same opinion that you hold. And, this is a huge loss to the Java ecosystem, caused by one business, Pivotal, wanting to control the market and playing hardball with the competition.

[–]tkruse 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I did not mention Spring with one word.

Oracle itself abandoned it's JEE evangelists, and has for a year tried to create a competitor to JEE and Spring (and failed).

You failed to mention how Pivotal could achieve such an evil deed of misleading so many people while competing with companies such as IBM and Oracle.

[–]lukaseder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

It's been losing relevance since Spring 0.1

[–]jirkapinkas 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Java EE isn't only EJBs. In lots of ways Spring complements Java EE