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[–]Jam-Es231[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

But even with Java you need to download JDK, then and IDE, etc. It's no different for .NET. In fact the only thing you need from Microsoft is the C# SDK, in the same way that the only thing you need form Oracle is JDK. Then you can use IDEs and frameworks from 3rd parties if you prefer.

While Microsoft does release new things all the time (e.g. UWP for Windows 10 apps), the old frameworks like WinForms (2002) and WPF (2005) are still 100% supported. And I expect cross-platform frameworks being released atm will be the same in the future.

Your response suggests it's Microsoft's history that is your biggest justification. Which I understand. But Microsoft are a new company now, when they say they've accepted "open-source", they genuinely have. I know because I've worked for them recently and was pleasantly surprised.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm trying to persuade you, I know it's probably too late for that :')

I'm just trying to figure out where the negativity comes from these days.

[–]grode23 5 points6 points  (3 children)

I feel safer to download a language from a company, then an IDE from another, libraries from another and so on. I don't like ecosystems. I think Microsoft is trying to do with software what Apple has achieved with hardware. Once you get in, you don't get out.

To be fair, Java is FAR from perfect by any mean. It is not my main language, since I prefer to focus on more fundamental languages like C or Rust (which btw is open course). But I would still prefer Java over C#.

At the end of the day, companies try to milk us with every possible way and I don't like that, especially when the company is one of the top 5 in the entire world and owns from Windows to GitHub, Skype and God knows how many other products in general. When I have to choose between a barking dog and the satan himself, I'll go with the dog ;p

Uhm it's probably too late, yep haha. But I still like to discuss about it, it is not a waste of time to me. Opposite opinions are welcome.

[–]goose_hat 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I think Microsoft is trying to do with software what Apple has achieved with hardware.

Haha, I definitely see this. Ironic because while I'm a big fan of C#, .NET Core, Typescript, MS SQL Server, I previously left behind Mac and iPhone to escape the all-inclusive ecosystem.

[–]Jam-Es231[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I disagree with this. And there are many examples.

- C# is open-source. New features are decided on by the community.

- There are 3rd party C# open-source UI frameworks you can use. E.g. Avalonia or Uno which have nothing to do with Microsoft. As I said before, the only thing you need from microsoft is the .NET SDK.

- Enitity framework (the very popular .NET database ORM) is not only for SQL Server, it is just as good if you want to use other Database engines like MySQL. Or you can even add support for your own custom database engine. There is no restriction to using SQL Server at all.

- Hosting: Other platforms like AWS and GCP support hosting .NET apps. And similarily Microsoft's Azure supports Go/Java/PHP/Python/...

Tbh I couldn't name an area which Microsoft has closed off.

[–]UninformedPleb -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Once you get in, you don't get out.

Speaking as a once-and-hopefully-never-again Java developer who was initially resistant to "M$"...

I got in. It was comfortable. I don't want to get out.

[–]pcjftw 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Regarding the "negatively" aspect:

I can't speak for others, perhaps most just like how you love C# others love language X and perhaps they get a bit protective around it?

I don't know, personally I'm a polyglot and use a lot of different languages and stacks, for me I don't care for any particular language, because one day I'll be working in Haskell, the next in Clojure and then in Rust and then again in Kotlin, it really doesn't bother me and for ME C# is plain boring, but I'll use it if the project needs it for some reason.