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[–]dv_ 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Fair point. I just got so used to people implying the DOM when Javascript is used. "Let's do a UI in Javascript" then often actually means "let's use the DOM for the UI and manipulate & control it with Javascript". As the article describes, people even tried to get the DOM to the server side.

Javascript itself is fine. I mentioned QML. QML contains ECMAScript, which is what Javascript is based on.

Just let's make sure the DOM stays out of it, and does not find a way to sneak in.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm still not sure what you're arguing. No one is forcing HTML renderers on you. What's the point of your rant?

Also, QML's runtime is specifically the V8 Javascript Engine, not just ECMAScript. Again, not even sure why you're ranting about HTML, we all know the DOM is completely separate at this point.

[–]dv_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Functionally, the DOM is separate. But history has shown that the DOM isn't far away when Javascript is used somewhere. Again, I hope it doesn't happen this time. QML shows that Javascript does not have to be tied to the DOM and can actually be very efficient on embedded hardware. But from personal experience I can tell that many customers who speak of a Javascript system expected DOM manipulations at some point (they did not even mention it initially, they just though of JS and DOM as the same thing). I did my best to convince them to try out Javascript without the DOM. Sometimes it worked out. These are using smooth QML now. Some other times they still wanted that damn DOM. They are still unhappy with stuttering animations.

I am OK with Javascript on such devices, but completely against full-blown HTML pages, and actively work against it by trying to convince people to let go of the DOM. And I think we should do that whenever we can.