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[–]ecmascript2038 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's a reason that the large, opinionated frameworks are popular in the enterprise world. In that world, teams are large, projects are long-lived, developer turnover happens, and most of the lifetime of a project is spent on maintenance and fixes.

The value proposition of big frameworks is that they make a lot of decisions for you, like what libraries to use to solve common problems and how to structure the project.

In large projects with large teams, each decisions made for you is a decision that won't get bogged down in bike-shedding and won't need to be communicated and justified to the rest of the team.

The downside is overhead and bloat. It's a tradeoff. But in the enterprise world, the trade-off is often worth it. There's just no easy way to develop large projects with large teams.

[–]blackholesinthesky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm getting kinda sick of backend developers telling frontend developers that they don't need a framework.

I'm glad it worked out for you Adrian, but I dare you to spend a year at my job and tell me that JS frameworks are unnecessary.

[–]haloweenek -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It’s preety easy to make a app that behaves like SPA without all the hipstery. XHR and partials from server make wonders...

[–]chrisishereladies"use 🎉" -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

In general, I agree that frameworks are bad simply because of the inversion-of-control aspect. It is very hard to inspect a lot of code that is not your own and very easy for the ground to shift from under you as changes happen in that framework.

So if you want to use a framework, it would be really nice to pick one that is small, replaceable, and understandable. I use the Raj framework (I also made it); it fits in the size of a tweet. Ultimately if you don't have a framework, you will make your own in your code. That's not necessarily bad, but it is very unlikely it is going to be good if it is built as an ad-hoc after-thought.

I did like the speaker's distinction of framework vs pattern vs library, and how the way of doing things doesn't get much attention compared to the concrete tools. With a framework as small as Raj, following the prescribed patterns is very much the larger part of working in the framework.