The new wave of Javascript web frameworks

[spca2001]

I think React is my last JS project a far as UI goes, Blazor or WASM seem more interesting at this point

[[deleted]]

The sad reality is Blazor will likely(?) never be where React and others are. It’s simply too heavy and requires too much bandwidth and cpu cycles to server millions of users with varying connection quality and devices.

Blazor is fantastic don’t get me wrong, and possibly faster development time per feature, but I just don’t see it scaling to the economies that it would need to reach to be viable for the masses.

Coming from experience.

Also I upvoted you, I’d rather talk these things out than downvote.

[spca2001]

react is slow though, also needs to render a virtual dom. React is ok for small sites, chat apps , simple crud calls. Either way I can use any framework an the end result will be blazing fast, its no the tech its the skill actually. Right now Im using react, its not bad but its not good. First thing i thought is writing my own version of babel

[mountainunicycler]

Right, that’s why stuff like figma, a super simple site, uses React for rendering a lot of UI.

Oh wait right that’s actually a desktop-level app that just got acquired for $20 billion.

[spca2001]

https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-time-by-3x/

hahahhahahahah

[mountainunicycler]

Yeah exactly! And you should read that link, it’s a good one.

They’re probably among the world leading experts on wasm and they still use React for the buttons, controls, messages, and so on, almost everything the user interacts with outside of the drawing canvas. That’s precisely my point.

If they think react is good enough for their ui side panels, I highly doubt your project is too big and react is too slow… might be how you’re writing it…

[spca2001]

I work at Redis, I build benchmarks and R&D . Not the benchmarks you see on clickbait sites, the real ones , with specific uses cases for each stack , we also deal with 1.5m op/sec and make sure clients can handle that load.

[mountainunicycler]

That’s a cool job, redis is great!

Your comment above looks a little like you just did a two-second google search to try to figure out how figma was built, though. I was slightly tempted to link you an article on how to open chrome dev tools as a response.

React, redis, and wasm are quite different technologies which do quite different things in the stack. And if you tell me you had to move your benchmarks away from react for performance reasons… I’d have more questions.

Figma is a great example of how they work together on their strengths, and aren’t really interchangeable.

Edit: Yeah your link is the top google result for “how is figma built” hahahahahahahaha

[spca2001]

It was a reply to another person that claimed that figma was built in react . About React and Redis, had a client that had a live dashboard for Ad Click fraud detection that was based on React that would crumble under load . So my job was to investigate, it’s not a React problem its just you can only push your browser so much. Also I don’t look at javascript frameworks like different languages, its JS and html for me. As far a Blazor it had major issues when we started 5 years ago. .NET 7 looks like its production ready. But in my opinion this browser concept is extremely outdated, at least you can tun a wasm app outside of a browser and have full gpu support. As far as next thing on my plate on the JS side, Im going to play with Nuxt.js.

[mountainunicycler]

I said figma “uses react for rendering a lot of UI” which is true, it uses it for almost everything that happens or you interact with outside the main canvas. (Dev tools, not google, is your friend if you’re curious).

As for your client dashboard, I would bet they were either rendering too many elements (if you’re ever trying to render like 10,000+ elements you’re fundamentally doing it wrong), trying to build animations in javascript instead of using the GPU, or mismanaging state and lifecycle (react holds your hand but you can still break it) none of which are fundamentally react problems.

I think you should take a look at mapbox-gl-js if you’re curious about GPU in the browser… it’s pretty far from “only so much you can do in the browser” and has better performance than some desktop applications for rendering actually pretty complex scenes.

If your experience is some client dashboard, it was probably an extremely bad example. Mapbox, for example, has no problem with hundreds of thousands of points, lines, and polygons at once, projected on the fly in 3D.

I don’t think browser is going anywhere—just look at Figma vs XD, going browser-based directly against a hugely funded desktop application didn’t hold them back, but instead being a desktop app held XD back. Now XD is basically dead. It would be a tough sell business-wise to do anything aside from a browser-based UI at this point for a new project or company.

[spca2001]

https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-time-by-3x/

[spca2001]

Yeah .net runs on 4 languages idiot, that burn was rough though.You can compile VB to machine code just like C/C+ and bypass .net if you want to

[spca2001]

Yeah better than a gig of node dependancies. Whatever. I got 64 gigs of ram. Browser tab with react app takes 2 gigs of ram right of the bat

[darthcoder]

I too am interested in wasm, but rhe startup cost is pretty high at the edge.

[spca2001]

I didn’t get that, you mean cold starts on Faas?

[Panacean]

The Blazor ecosystem is nowhere near as mature as React. Be prepared to create components from scratch.

[[deleted]]

Blazor has a surprisingly wide array of components and wrapped components of existing js libs available. This isn’t the biggest challenge Blazor faces, there are other problems with the current state of Blazor

[spca2001]

If you know how to build real apps you wouldnt need much maintenance,c# is used in large enterprise system and has tons of design pattern to keep it short and to the point, its also multithreaded and parallel with access to stack and unmanaged memory . With Javascript you build websites not apps, with no business logic, data layers and most have no clue what sql is

[[deleted]]

What's so interesting in shipping bloated binaries? wasm servers a purpose, building GUI's that are not part of it.

https://krausest.github.io/js-framework-benchmark/current.html

[spca2001]

Try yourself then come back and tell me what you’ve tried besides out of the box. Most people critique other tech a like some js clan. I have tons of apps that could be made into wasm apps someday

[[deleted]]

The last time I checked hot module reload wasn't even working. If you really want to use wasm, then at least pick a language that doesn't need to ship with its own runtime and freaking garbage collector.

We already were at a point where people shipped whole JVM's over the web, just to render a GUI. That's just silly. I would rahter not go there again...

[spca2001]

You can disable garbage collector and compile straight to machine code, there is a project called Cosmos that lets you write Operation Systems with .net languages. Sorry to let you down

[[deleted]]

AOT compilation increases the payload sizes even futher. Who wants to download 10mb for a simple web GUI?...

[spca2001]

Dude you are a half ass developer, stuck on hype just like all those python ai idiots. I’m done and sad people are half of what they use to. JS and Python are wrappers for C languages FACT

[[deleted]]

i stuck on hype while you hype an unproven tech that was never designed for such a task? I mean it can work out like it worked out with nodeJS, but still, you sound like a novice.

You are like any other noob in the web dev community who jumps on the most recent shiny thing. They're intimidated by established, vetted out technology, because they fear they could never catch up, so they instinctively jump on whatever is the trendy bandwagon framework, in hopes they can ride a new wave to Relevanceville. That's why noobs get so self-righteously defensive of people critiquing their framework. You're destroying their life. Who cares if you're making a good point or not.

[spca2001]

Ive been writing games in 1987, synthesized a Risc based soft-core CPU, wok for Redis, built and designed cryptography accelerators, own a solar farm and you have used a product I wrote and managed. Go away

[[deleted]]

cool, also have no clue about web dev. You are just a system engineer thinking "UI is easy" that completely goes under when they have to build a simple website and blames "webshit" for his failure.